Active Community: Message List - interval training at the cost of long runs?

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

JimR022 — Tue, 08 May 2007 17:17:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:

This is getting frustrating. In an earlier post, Tchuck used the term "low mielage" when describing my training

I'm just pointing out that you should probably keep those two recovery runs reasonably short. Keep your recovery run pace slow, and don't go too far. If you do, say a 10 minute pace for recovery run, 7 miles is 70 minutes and I think that's too far/long for a recovery run.

[http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).]

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

mrinertia — Tue, 08 May 2007 17:09:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by JimR:

My thoughts:

5-7 miles 'recovery' runs, too long for your recovery runs at your pace. Keep these within 40 minutes.

Tuesday, if you find the tempo portion too demanding or you're running that tempo pace too slow, reduce the tempo portion to 3-4 miles, the rest of it is warmup/cooldown.

Friday, limit to 5 miles.

toss some strides into the thursday run, it'll help with leg speed.

edit: for tempo pace, refer to McMillan's calculator[/URL" target="_blank">, it looks like you should do it somewhere between 8:30ish and 9:00 minute pace if you're targetting a 52 minute 10k.

[http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).]

This is getting frustrating. In an earlier post, Tchuck used the term "low mielage" when describing my training. Now I'm being asked to cut back even further. I guess I'm in a dangerous area with a little knowledge being a dangerous thing. I've been running for a year now with the "more is better" philosophy and remain uninjured. The first time I ran I could only do 1/2 mile and then walked home. I've done 2 HMs so far. I enjoy running for the sake of running, but would like to be able to run fast over great distances. On any given training run, I don't race, but I do run hard. It is difficult for me to see how easing up is going to help me reach my goal. Could you point me toward any books or articles that give information on the physiology and physics that support your advice? I'm fairly analytical and if I could see some of the science behind the philosophy that easing up will help me get faster, it would put my mind at ease. Thanks.

----

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

JimR022 — Tue, 08 May 2007 16:15:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:
Ok, so how does this sound:

Saturday: 12 mile long run
Sunday: off
Monday 5-7 recovery
Tuesday: 7-9 mile with 4-7 at tempo pace
Wednesday: off
Thursday: 7 miles
Friday: 5-7 miles

My thoughts:

5-7 miles 'recovery' runs, too long for your recovery runs at your pace. Keep these within 40 minutes.

Tuesday, if you find the tempo portion too demanding or you're running that tempo pace too slow, reduce the tempo portion to 3-4 miles, the rest of it is warmup/cooldown.

Friday, limit to 5 miles.

toss some strides into the thursday run, it'll help with leg speed.

edit: for tempo pace, refer to McMillan's calculator[/URL" target="_blank">, it looks like you should do it somewhere between 8:30ish and 9:00 minute pace if you're targetting a 52 minute 10k.

[http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by JimR (edited May-08-2007).]

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

exciton — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 18:07:00 GMT

I hope I am not repeating another post. I skimmed the other responses but don't have time to read in detail.

One mistake that I think almost all new runners make is that their easy days are just not easy enough. If you are trying to accomodate three key workouts per week, then you need to make sure the intervening easy days are truly easy. What is easy? For me, after an easy run I can take a few walking steps and my breathing is normal. I feel like I could easily do the whole run over again. There is no fatigue involved. These runs are for recovery and for practicing your form. You may have to deliberately hold back to keep yourself from picking up the pace. Get over the idea that every run should give a significant training stress. Focus on hitting the splits in your key workouts that will lead to the fulfillment of your racing goals.

----

My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

George in Fremont — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 06:42:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:

Firstly, I'm in taper hell. I've never really thought there was much need to taper for a 10k because they're comparitively short. Chalk that up to being an uneducated Newbie. Per my mentor's recomendation, I'm only doing 12 miles this week leading up to the race on Saturday. My week looks like this:

I don't know if you need to taper so much for a 10k. I usually do about 2/3 of my normal mileage but will reduce my tempos and intervals significantly.

----

Happy running !

My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

mrinertia — Wed, 06 Jun 2007 03:45:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by gcklo:

You were doing tempo runs without even knowing it. Your tempo pace is somewhere between 7:30+ to 8:10+ or so when you improved from 51:30 to 46:40.

So, for people who define speedworks to include tempos, you were almost doing weekly speedworks!!!

I'm probably in the same boat (accidental tempo running). When people say 10k race pace plus a minute or whatever, that's not something I can easily judge since I haven't raced since September of last year. I know I have gotten faster, but how much? I guess that's one reason to race more frequently, so I have periodic milestone to guage my progress. A point that brings me to this evening's workout.

Firstly, I'm in taper hell. I've never really thought there was much need to taper for a 10k because they're comparitively short. Chalk that up to being an uneducated Newbie. Per my mentor's recomendation, I'm only doing 12 miles this week leading up to the race on Saturday. My week looks like this:

Monday - off
Tuesday - 2m warm-up, 2m race pace, 2m cooldown
Wednesday - 3m with 1 mile fartlek
Thursday - 3 easy

So tonight I went out, warmed up, then hit what pace I felt I could just barely hold for 6 miles. There was some guesswork involved, but I ran those two miles at about a 7:25 pace. I was shocked. I know a lot can happen during a 10k, but it looks like I am ready to blow the lid off my 54:04 PR on Saturday.

Thanks again for everyone's input. Wish me luck. I've got the jitters somthin' fierce!

----

All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you.

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

George in Fremont — Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:37:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by sack77:

My old 10k PR was a 51:30. I ran a 46:40 last week. Since I'm not doing any speedwork, the only possible explanation is the increased mileage. I don't think I could have done the extra mileage running the pace I was before. So, FWIW, more mileage + slower pace = almost 5 min PR for me.

You were doing tempo runs without even knowing it. Your tempo pace is somewhere between 7:30+ to 8:10+ or so when you improved from 51:30 to 46:40.

So, for people who define speedworks to include tempos, you were almost doing weekly speedworks!!!

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

michaelsnelliam — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:32:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by superburtm:
running slow= slow running

Killer whale = whale killer

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

Dana Becker — Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:12:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by mrinertia:
Thanks for you input everyone. My 10k is next Saturday. I'll post my results. I'm pretty nervous. I've entered races before and have run them all pretty hard, but I don't know that I've ever run a full on, bang your head against the wall RACE. I'm looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time. It's almost a week away and I'm starting to get jitters. I'll asess my training paces based on my performance next week nad make adjustments if needed. Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.

I know how you feel. I've run...oh..8 to 10 races in the last 9 months, and I still don't know that I've really laid it all out there during a race, perhaps aside from my last marathon, but even then I'm pretty sure I could have run 10 seconds faster per mile.

Just make sure you get a good warmup in. I'd say at least 1.5 miles, up to 2 or so. Trying to race hard without a good warmup makes for a rough start I've noticed.

Re: interval training at the cost of long runs?

mrinertia — Sun, 03 Jun 2007 23:25:00 GMT

Thanks for you input everyone. My 10k is next Saturday. I'll post my results. I'm pretty nervous. I've entered races before and have run them all pretty hard, but I don't know that I've ever run a full on, bang your head against the wall RACE. I'm looking forward to it and dreading it at the same time. It's almost a week away and I'm starting to get jitters. I'll asess my training paces based on my performance next week nad make adjustments if needed. Wish me luck, I'll keep you posted.