Active Community: Message List - milk anyone?

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 23:46:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by Iontach:

Excellent post-race visual, that.

Why wait?

Wellesley College girls to provide food station in Boston '08.

[http://This message has been edited by bigapplepie (edited Dec-10-2007).|http://This message has been edited by bigapplepie (edited Dec-10-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:16:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by CLB:

Well now, that's not necessarily true. Depends on other factors. If the breast is the only source of nourishment offered, damn straight a healthy human will choose it over starvation.

So qualifiers are somewhat needed here.

I've never heard of an instance of extended breastfeeding where the child was denied solid food when s/he asked for it. If that were the case, of course it would be wrong, IMO. I don't think that falls under the category of a mutually agreeable breastfeeding relationship, though.

:: Bonita

[http://This message has been edited by BonitaApplebum (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by BonitaApplebum (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:06:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by Suesquatch:
One day she took a can of stove blackening and the brush and closed herself in the bedroom where she copiously blackened her left breast with the stove polish. With a lipstick she drew a wide ugly mouth with frightening teeth in the vicinity of the nipple.

!http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/mad.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/mad.gif|border=0!

I read that book 20ish years ago and I still remember this.

That said, "givin' em the gussie" is a funny expression.

[http://This message has been edited by makeda (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by makeda (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Mon, 10 Dec 2007 01:06:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by Iontach:

Point of information from those who have breastfed: is it possible to get a child to nurse who does not want to?

No. I promise. If I check to see if Eliza wants to nurse, and put her to the breast, she'll arch her back and push away if she's not interested.

And the older the child, the less you can force the issue, because then they have teeth.

:: Bonita

[http://This message has been edited by BonitaApplebum (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by BonitaApplebum (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 23:14:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by ellenshana:

This isn't logical and shows little understanding of a child's physical development. A child can communicate needs in both verbal and nonverbal ways long before they can articulately state something. Development is a process and I think I'd speak for a lot of parents that they feel like they wake up one day and say "huh? How did that happen already?" It's because events happened as a series of steps. "More" was "mo" just a few days ago, wasn't it? It seems so.

So a 15 month old with a poopy diaper can squinch up her butt when you pick her up so as not to get poop smushed everywhere, and can point to her diaper when you ask her if she has a load. She can also run away when you ask her if she wants a change (hey, maybe she likes it?).

Point is that it appears to be an emotional reaction for one to say "if they can ask for it they shouldn't have it anymore."

Edited because "articulate state something" isn't articulate.

[http://This message has been edited by ellenshana (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by ellenshana (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Maybe I don't clearly understand your post, but when I say clearly articulate something, I mean a child is old enough to, and can say "mommy, I need -

". I know a 15 month old may be able to signal they need a diaper change by pointing to or tugging on a diaper, but when they can clearly put it into words, then I feel they should be potty trained.
Babies signal they are ready to be fed straight from the womb when they begin rooting, but I know that doesn't mean they are ready to be weaned off of the breast milk. I hope that makes sense and i'm not just rambling.
I am not trying to pass judgement on this woman, it's just something I personally wouldn't do.

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 22:14:00 GMT

CRB here. I'm putting on my Bushwellian pith helmet due to the poo that is flying throughout this thread and to fling some poo into the fray myself.

First, there's this egregious nonsense:

quote:
Originally posted by Kawasaki500:

"Psychologist Michael Burge, a specialist in relationships and development, said there should be a cut-off line. "The concern would be creating too much physical or emotional dependence. I would be very worried about that," Burge said. Psychologist Evelyn Field said breastfeeding for a child older than 3 is "totally inappropriate." "It's not normal, the umbilical cord needs to be broken," Field said. "You have to wonder if it's for the child or the mother — I bet it's for the mother."

[http://This message has been edited by Kawasaki500 (edited Dec-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Kawasaki500 (edited Dec-08-2007).]

There are

good robust studies that address the psychological impact - for good or ill - of breast-feeding past two years of age. So what Burge and Field expound is just so much conjecture. As the cliché goes, "Opinions are like âssholes. Everyone's got 'em." What these psychologists offer is nothing more than beshatted opinion. Please spare me any borderline moronic judgment that this is remotely "scientific." It isn't.

I mean, really, K-man. I thought you weren't a knee-walking mouth breather. I hope that you'll prove me wrong in subsequent posts.

quote:
Originally posted by Desert Tortoise:

Yea, I guess we should get out and be more "natural." We should get in touch with our inner ape-baby and suckle our young until prom night, and maybe we could ditch the whole potty training gig and just let them sh!t in the woods.

"Inner ape baby." Heh. Well, as vaunted as we humans like to think ourselves, we are three or four missed meals (solid or lactalicious) away from anarchy. Your inner ape is much closer than you think, and the veneer of civilization that covers our animal nature (and we are animals, folks) is pretty dämned thin. Go read your Frans de Waal, DT, and come back to me for your quiz and your spanking.

quote:
Originally posted by gebuh:
what are those stages? In some cultures mothers carry their children for longer than you advocate breastfeeding them. In some cultures children defer to their parents until they die- parents select spouses and determine career paths. Some cultures don't have the extended adolescence that we do- you're a child, then you're an adult, none of this teenage crap. Stages of emotional and psychological development are relative.

When I saw that clip my visceral reaction was "ok that's just not right", but I ask myself- "why do I react that way"? You should try it sometime.

This post, particularly the last paragraph, is simply fücking brilliant. I nod wisely - my menopausal beard bobbing - to you, your gebuhness.

And I nod sagely to jek and caribou as well. Caribou, one of our experts in mammlian behaviors, coorectly notes that the average age of weaning in human populations is 3-5 years of age. Now let's think about what an average means, folks. That means there are outliers. So there will be kids who self-wean earlier and some later like the kids having their 15 minutes of fame in the youtube clip. Even within the big bell shaped curve of the "average," there will be many variations.

quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:

Personally, I agree with the science behind breastfeeding for the first year.

Yep. Absloutely agree. But even older kids receive immunological benefits from breastmilk, esp. from IgA and better yet, it is human IgA. For a review of the overall conference of active and passive immunity by breast milk, plug this into PubMed:

Hanson L. Ann Allergy Asthma Immunol. 1998 Dec;81(6):523-33; quiz (that's for you DT) 533-4, 537.

quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:

I have never seen any data that breastfeeding beyond age 3 provides any benefit (physical or psychological).

Yes, the data are sparse, and arguably there are no reliable studies that state that it is detrimental either.

quote:
Originally posted by cindyleigh:

For these girls, breastfeeding seems to be the equivalent of carrying around a blanket, thumb-sucking, or using a pacifier...which (if I had one) I would discourage in my 8-year old.

Personally, that's my take, too, and I might be described accurately as a lactivist (former card-carrying member of LaLeche League). But I'll refer to gebuh's comment again. One needs to walk a mile in another's shoes (or wear another's nursing bra) before one points a finger in judgment. True to CHithouse tradition, we are all too quick to critique another's parenting style.

Sorry, but the "what if they were boys" argument is specious.

Diane and SloJan - !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/biggrin.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/biggrin.gif|border=0!

Congrats, moroccangirl! You've earned a place in the yearly CRB Power Point summary.

Edited due to fückalated UBB.

----

Dr. Joan Bushwell's Chimpanzee Refuge[/URL" target="_blank">

[http://This message has been edited by Doc Bushwell (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Doc Bushwell (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 20:35:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by moroccangirl:

I think what moppet meant was if a child can clearly articulate that they want it, it may very well be time to wean. Kind of like when I see a toddler clearly tell a parent that their diaper needs to be changed...I feel like if they can tell someone to change their diaper, they should have already been potty trained.

This isn't logical and shows little understanding of a child's physical development. A child can communicate needs in both verbal and nonverbal ways long before they can articulately state something. Development is a process and I think I'd speak for a lot of parents that they feel like they wake up one day and say "huh? How did that happen already?" It's because events happened as a series of steps. "More" was "mo" just a few days ago, wasn't it? It seems so.

So a 15 month old with a poopy diaper can squinch up her butt when you pick her up so as not to get poop smushed everywhere, and can point to her diaper when you ask her if she has a load. She can also run away when you ask her if she wants a change (hey, maybe she likes it?).

Point is that it appears to be an emotional reaction for one to say "if they can ask for it they shouldn't have it anymore."

Edited because "articulate state something" isn't articulate.

[http://This message has been edited by ellenshana (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by ellenshana (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Sun, 09 Dec 2007 19:16:00 GMT

Would you alter your opinion if her children were boys ..who had named her breasts and spoke so fondly at 8 yrs old about their mom's breasts? ...and were still breast feeding?

edited to add: now that I've read the entire thread, I can see that this was already brought up.

Personally, I agree with the science behind breastfeeding for the first year.

I have never seen any data that breastfeeding beyond age 3 provides any benefit (physical or psychological).

For these girls, breastfeeding seems to be the equivalent of carrying around a blanket, thumb-sucking, or using a pacifier...which (if I had one) I would discourage in my 8-year old.

[http://This message has been edited by cindyleigh (edited Dec-09-2007).|http://This message has been edited by cindyleigh (edited Dec-09-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:23:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by Fionn mac Cumhail:

In the wild, animals are weaned when they can be...

more accurately, when the cost to the mother is greater than the benefit to the neonate...

I suspect we mostly do the same thing, even in contemporary first world society. There's just a helluva lot of variation among humans in how the costs are weighted.

[http://This message has been edited by caribougrrl (edited Dec-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by caribougrrl (edited Dec-08-2007).]

Re: milk anyone?

guest — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 18:23:00 GMT

quote:
Originally posted by ellenshana:

That's a pretty strong statement.

I'll go ahead and say that I'm disgusted to see a woman breastfeeding an 8 year old with her older sister sitting there and longing for the "sweet" breast milk that's "better than a mango even." Those kids are going to be effed up.

I can't find it but I read an article where a lady got in trouble because she was breastfeeding her 8 year old here in the US. Psychologists say that it's wrong to breast feed so long. The people who think it's okay to breast feed children till whenever all sound like they're spewing hippie garbage.

"Psychologist Michael Burge, a specialist in relationships and development, said there should be a cut-off line. "The concern would be creating too much physical or emotional dependence. I would be very worried about that," Burge said. Psychologist Evelyn Field said breastfeeding for a child older than 3 is "totally inappropriate." "It's not normal, the umbilical cord needs to be broken," Field said. "You have to wonder if it's for the child or the mother — I bet it's for the mother."

[http://This message has been edited by Kawasaki500 (edited Dec-08-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Kawasaki500 (edited Dec-08-2007).]