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1091 Views 6 Replies Latest reply: Jun 18, 2011 9:43 AM by HugoTafurst
gnagel60 Amateur 14 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 17, 2011 4:50 PM

Balk?

This situation came up the other night in a Pony game (OBR applies)...

 

R1, 1 out

 

Right-handed pitcher assumes a wind up stance on the rubber (both feet on the rubber facing the plate).  He disengages from the rubber--properly stepping back first with his right foot.  However, as he disengages, he swings his arms back as if to start a wind up.  This fools the runner who is promptly picked off.

 

Coach insists this is a balk since the pitcher simulated a wind up.  PU insists this is legal since the pitcher clearly disengaged the rubber stepping back with his right foot.

 

Who is right?

 

Thanks

Glenn

  • HugoTafurst Legend 515 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jun 17, 2011 6:10 PM (in response to gnagel60)
    Re: Balk?

    gnagel60 wrote:

     

    This situation came up the other night in a Pony game (OBR applies)...

     

    R1, 1 out

     

    Right-handed pitcher assumes a wind up stance on the rubber (both feet on the rubber facing the plate).  He disengages from the rubber--properly stepping back first with his right foot.  However, as he disengages, he swings his arms back as if to start a wind up.  This fools the runner who is promptly picked off.

     

    Coach insists this is a balk since the pitcher simulated a wind up.  PU insists this is legal since the pitcher clearly disengaged the rubber stepping back with his right foot.

     

    Who is right?

     

    Thanks

    Glenn

    Balk:

    Take your pick

    8.05

    sound like (a) The pitcher, while touching his plate, makes any motion naturally associated with

    his pitch and fails to make such delivery;

     

    but if I'm picturing it wrong, then..

    (g) The pitcher makes any motion naturally associated with his pitch while he is not

    touching the pitcher’s plate;

     

     

     





    oops

  • DawgDays Pro 156 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jun 17, 2011 10:52 PM (in response to gnagel60)
    Re: Balk?

    Balk.

     

    If F1 steps back with his pivot foot, he's disengaged.  Many people will say that once a pitcher has disengaged, he's now an infielder and can do anything.  This is not true.  (I suspect this umpire believes this.  So does this pitcher, and his coach.)

     

    He's still the pitcher, and while disengaged there are two things that a pitcher cannot do - simulate a pitch 8.05(g), or stand on or astride the rubber without the ball 8.05(i).

  • BHanlon Pro 82 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jun 18, 2011 5:14 AM (in response to DawgDays)
    Re: Balk?

    Looks like a classic case of internet umpiring....

     

    I'd say this is a HTBT as when I read the original description I pictured a pitcher in windup position with the ball in hand and glove together in fromt of his chest facing the batter in a standard wind-up position. Pitcher disengages by stepping back off the rubber with his pivot foot and as he does so he drops his hands to his sides.  OM wants a balk claiming pitcher "began his pitching motion by swinging arms down", umpire sees it as legal disengagement with hands dropping to the side. Now if the pitcher brought his arms upwards into a wind-up I have a balk, but dropping arms is nothing IMO.

     

    I guess it just depends on the point of view and wording of the action...

  • Mason_Dixon_Blue Legend 250 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jun 18, 2011 5:34 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Re: Balk?

    Clearly a balk!

     

    This is an old Junior League/Pony League/ JV trick, that will fool a couple of runners until the umpires start balking the pitcher for it.  Umpires who are inexperienced on the 90' diamond will let it go, until a senior man explains that they are simulating a pitching movement while not in contact with the rubber, and is a balk.

     

    Calmly explain to your umpire that this is an illegal move.  He needs educated.  If that doesn't work, protest the next time he allows it.  Then he'll get educated.

  • HugoTafurst Legend 515 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jun 18, 2011 9:43 AM (in response to BHanlon)
    Re: Balk?

    BHanlon wrote:

     

    Looks like a classic case of internet umpiring....

     

    I'd say this is a HTBT as when I read the original description I pictured a pitcher in windup position with the ball in hand and glove together in fromt of his chest facing the batter in a standard wind-up position. Pitcher disengages by stepping back off the rubber with his pivot foot and as he does so he drops his hands to his sides.  OM wants a balk claiming pitcher "began his pitching motion by swinging arms down", umpire sees it as legal disengagement with hands dropping to the side. Now if the pitcher brought his arms upwards into a wind-up I have a balk, but dropping arms is nothing IMO.

     

    I guess it just depends on the point of view and wording of the action...


    From the Original post....

    "However, as he disengages, he swings his arms back as if to start a wind up."





    oops

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