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3565 Views 22 Replies Latest reply: Oct 17, 2011 4:58 PM by Michael_Taylor RSS 1 2 Previous Next
gnagel60 Amateur 14 posts since
May 25, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 13, 2011 10:04 PM

Balk?

Right-handed pitcher, runner on 3B, OBR applies...

 

Pitcher is in the stretch.  He assumes a balanced position and swings his left foot past the pitching rubber (towards 2B).

 

I'm assuming that it would be a balk if he then stepped to third base in a pick off attempt.  My reasoning is that once his left foot passed the rubber, he would either need to go to 2B (but that doesn't apply here) or deliver a pitch to the plate.  It seems comparable to not allowing a lefty pitcher to swing his right foot past the rubber and then attempt a pick off throw at 1B.

 

Am I correct?

 

The next scenario is more difficult to describe.  Once again, RHP with a runner on 3B.  This time, the pitcher is also in the stretch.  His first move appears to be initiating a pitch...in that his throwing arm drops and swings wide in preparation for a throw.  But, he hasn't yet made a stride to the plate!  Can the pitcher still step directly to 3B for a pick off attempt?  This might be one of this had to be there's.  I'm thinking that it is a balk as his mechanics closely resemble loading up for a pitch.

 

Any insights are appreciated!

 

Glenn

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Oct 14, 2011 8:06 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Balk?

    The rules do not change based on the handedness of the pitcher.  Does this help?

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Oct 14, 2011 9:01 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Re: Balk?

    Where does the rule separate RH from LH?

     

    You are allowed to step and throw to first.  Lets see you do that without lifting a knee.

     

    Q: Can you step "heel first" or do you have to turn your foot and point with the toe?

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    A:  Heel first is legal. All that's required is that you gain distance and direction.

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Oct 14, 2011 11:03 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Balk?

    gnagel60 wrote:

     

    Right-handed pitcher, runner on 3B, OBR applies...

     

    Pitcher is in the stretch.  He assumes a balanced position and swings his left foot past the pitching rubber (towards 2B).

     

    I'm assuming that it would be a balk if he then stepped to third base in a pick off attempt. 


    You are correct.  It's straight out of OBR 8.05(a):

     

    "Comment:  If a lefthanded or righthanded pitcher swings his free foot past the back edge of the pitcher's rubber, he is required to pitch to the batter except to throw to second base on a pick-off play."

     

    I've always wondered why the rule book put both "lefthanded" and "righthanded" in the case book comment, and not just say, "If a pitcher swings..."  I guess they just wanted to make it crystal clear that the rule applied to both.

     

    gnagel60 wrote:

     

    The next scenario is more difficult to describe.  Once again, RHP with a runner on 3B.  This time, the pitcher is also in the stretch.  His first move appears to be initiating a pitch...in that his throwing arm drops and swings wide in preparation for a throw.  But, he hasn't yet made a stride to the plate!  Can the pitcher still step directly to 3B for a pick off attempt?  This might be one of this had to be there's.  I'm thinking that it is a balk as his mechanics closely resemble loading up for a pitch.



    I'm having difficulty envisioning what you're describing.  You say he's making some sort of arm motions, but he hasn't moved his feet yet?

     

    A lefty pitcher makes the same arm motion whether he's going to pitch or throw to first or second.  So don't get too hung up on what he does with his arms.  I just don't understand from your description when this pitcher is making those motions.

  • TheMouth__1 Legend 917 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Oct 15, 2011 7:49 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Balk?

    He still hasn't commited to the pitch, so a move to 3B would be allowable.  TM

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Oct 15, 2011 10:08 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Balk?

    You mean like a mirror image of a LHP going to 1B?

     

    Think about it.

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Oct 15, 2011 10:33 AM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Balk?

    Rich:

     

    You DO have me thinking about it!  :-)

     

    Here's what I have.  As long as the non-pivot leg has NOT crossed the pitcher's plate, the pitcher is not yet committed to throwing home.  (Same case for RHP or LHP.)  Therefore, the RHP pitcher may make a play at 3B.

     

    But here are a few other wrinkles.

     

    ANY pitcher (RHP or LHP) CANNOT feint to 1B (unless he has clearly disengaged prior; now he's just a fielder).  That IS defined as a balk.  But I think (and I am sure you will slaughter me if I get this wrong), you can't balk to 2B or 3B by feinting AS LONG AS you disengage as part of the motion.  Again, I will stipulate some confusion on this.  But I am bringing a FEINT into the discussion which I believe is handled differently from a non-delivery to the plate followed by a play at a base (actual throw).

     

    Point is, there are different rules for a feint or a play depending on which base you are thinking about.

     

    Did I get that right?

     

    Mike CVUA

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Oct 15, 2011 3:19 PM (in response to Mike_CVUA)
    Balk?

    Why do you think you need to disengage on the feint?  It's under the "step and throw to a base" option (of the three options) of pitching, and I don't think it requires a disengagement.

  • Michael_Taylor Community Moderator 318 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Oct 15, 2011 8:28 PM (in response to gnagel60)
    Balk?

    gnagel60 wrote:

     

    I understand that the rules are the same for right and lefthanded pitchers.  But, given the nature of the different directions that the pitchers are facing in the stretch, the application varies.

     

    Maybe I'm way off here, but having attended baserunning clinics...a runner at 1B is instructed to move into a secondary lead (or break for a steal) the instant that a RHP lifts his knee.  The reasoning is that the RHP now has distance and direction moving towards 3B---and if there isn't a runner on 3B,  he must proceed with his pitch.  He can not then turn and throw to first base--particularly when his knee rises up as high as his waist.

     

    With a LHP the instruction in entirely different.  Due to the nature of the LHP facing 1B, he can lift his knee high and then step straight towards 1B for a throw.  He isn't changing direction--as a RHP must with the same move.

     

    Glenn

     

    Your baserunning clinics are giving you bad advice. I have heard coaches tell runners to go on the heel lift. Either one will get you picked off.





    Michael S. Taylor

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Oct 16, 2011 9:01 AM (in response to gnagel60)
    Balk?

    What you're missing is that virtully no one does a direct step from the rubber any more. They do a jab step move or a jump turn. They haven't done the direct step in so long hardly anyone remembers it. More importantly, a very large percentage of people think it's illegal becaue they never see it done.

     

    It isn't.

     

    Read 8.01 - slowly  - several times.  For both pitching positions it says the pitcher may go to bases from the rubber.

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