quote:<HR>Originally posted by totaleffort:
If some non-carb types admit it is a 'rare' case I'm not about to expand upon that. <HR>

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hairy Trotter:
Dan Brock is exactly right. This is a rare case. The notion that a ketogenic diet puts folks on the fast track to ketoacidosis hasn't been demonstrated except in unusual circumstances.

totaleffort, while you're here: I was really interested to see you asking for the full text of the article. You've never provided any indication that the type of "research" you do involves reading the text of materials from peer-reviewed journals. Instead, you seem to just take as truth some half-baked (and often demonstrably incorrect) stuff from the likes of Barry Groves.

One example: you indicated earlier that your diet and "no-carb tapers" causes you to avoid producing lactic acid altogether; you also suggest that lactate is a byproduct of all carbohydrate metabolism. Please explain how this works.

Another example: you've said -- parroting Groves -- that Mamo Wolde won the 1968 Olympic Marathon on a diet that contained practically no carbohydrates. You offer this "fact" as "proof" of something or the other.

Ask yourself: is something a fact just because Groves says it is? The only support that Groves offers for his claim about Wolde's diet is that fact that Wolde grew up in an Ethiopian village and chased wild game. If you bother to research, you will find that simply being Ethiopian and chasing game doesn't establish what Wolde's diet was as a child, let alone his diet during his long career as an internationally competitive athlete. If his diet were anywhere close to that of a typical Ethiopian, you would notice he was likely to eat a very high carbohydrate diet, consisting of large amounts of a bread (injera) made from teff, a grain that is a staple of the diet in that region. And other beans and grains. And you'll find that, though a lot of villagers in Ethiopia don't eat meat (except fish) for religious reasons, it defies reason to think there are significant numbers of Ethiopian villagers that subsist on an all-meat diet. Why? A hint: think about the climate in northeastern Africa. Think about what conditions would be necessary to keep meat available as the sole source of sustainance, with no grain or plant sources. Look into it.

If you can find one research resource that supports Groves' claims that (1) Wolde ever ate a low-carb diet AND (2) that he did so during the later phases of his career when he switched from shorter distances to the marathon, I'd love to see it.

It's funny, too: Groves said that, because of his diet, Wolde "had no concept of hitting the wall." Odd. Wolde and the great Ethiopian carb-eater Adebe Bikila were ten minutes ahead of the field during the 18th mile of the Boston Marathon. But both hit the wall. They had to walk. And they finished well back in the back. For a guy who had no concept of hitting the wall, he hit it pretty hard.

As you're looking that stuff up, you might also want to look up information about Groves' take on how metabolism works. He gets a lot of stuff wrong.

It's too bad, really. There's very interesting work being done by real researchers on low-carb/high-fat diets and athletic performance. Some of this stuff tends to confirm conventional thinking; some of it calls some aspects of contentional thinking into question. If you bothered doing real research, I think you'd find it very interesting, and it might lead you to some different approaches to eating for performance that wouldn't involve wholesale changes to your adopted diet.

Conducting genuinely valuable "research" isn't easy.<HR>

quote:<HR>Originally posted by CSuzette:

Have you read his books?<HR>

quote:<HR>Originally posted by tormentated:

Sure have, and the Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution starts higher fat, lower carb. After the first optional 2 weeks, you start adding more and more vegetables, dairy, seeds and nuts, then berries, wines, then legumes, then starchy vegetables and whole grains.

As you go up the carb ladder, you lower meat/dairy/added fats and eliminate foods that you appear sensitive to.

As with any diet or even eating plan, it's easy to abuse, subsitute processed crud for the healthy foods you're SUPPOSED to eat, etc. And I'm sad for those people that do. But I'm just as, if not more, sad for the people who decide that eating McDonalds, white bread, chips ahoy, or sugary cereals (because they're 'whole grain'), or pringles (because it's in 100 calorie packaging) is somehow good for you.<HR>

quote:<HR>Originally posted by CSuzette:
TE and I were bantering over whether you were a man or woman. I think I said man...he said woman...then I agreed that maybe you were a woman...then I read that you are a man. Funny.<HR>