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5493 Views 85 Replies Latest reply: Apr 12, 2006 12:36 PM by peachtree003 RSS Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 6 Previous Next
  • Detroit094 Rookie 133 posts since
    Mar 14, 2005

    Whatever may be going on with FH and CE, I hope they get it resolved.  The carbo canteen probably isnt the place to do that  !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/smile.gif|border=0!

    I think the official slogan of this place should be "Its just calories in versus calories out!!!!"

    It just......doesn't.....work like that. It doesn't. Get it through your heads. I have read THOUSANDS of posts on this site about people with disordered eating/struggling with diet/weight loss etc. I believe some people may be lying, or missing a component, but I think most of them aren't. Its why "dieting" doesn't work. I think if you took a survey of everyone who did the old "500 a day deficit", a very small fraction would actually report that they lost exactly one pound every week. It just doesn't work like that.

    The body wants to survive.  If you take drastic measures (compulsive overexercising, starvation), its probably a safe bet the end results won't be pretty.  I wager thats going on with these posters.

  • lemonsong Rookie 39 posts since
    Nov 16, 2004

    quote:


    Originally posted by Detroit:


    I have read THOUSANDS of posts on this site about people with disordered eating/struggling with diet/weight loss etc.


     



    You read it on the internet, it must be true!

    People starving to death in places where there is a real food shortage don't get fat. Americans "starving to death" and living across the street from a convenience store mysteriouisly gain weight.

    It's a miracle!

  • Detroit094 Rookie 133 posts since
    Mar 14, 2005

    Lemonsong,

    You may or may not have continued reading my post, where, just a few spaces later, I stated in plain English, "I believe some people may be lying.."

    Did you see this part?


    For the OP, I meant to ask how you were sure that the weight you gained was fat.  Did you have it measured by hydro/caliper?  The only reason I ask is that people with complex health problems can hold on to a ton of water weight.  This could also be an explanation of some of your problems.  Either way, get thee to reputable doctor.

    [http://This message has been edited by Detroit (edited Apr-03-2006).|http://This message has been edited by Detroit (edited Apr-03-2006).]

  • JustMe1970 Rookie 11 posts since
    Jul 15, 2005

    quote:


    OIts why "dieting" doesn't work. I think if you took a survey of everyone who did the old "500 a day deficit", a very small fraction would actually report that they lost exactly one pound every week. It just doesn't work like that.


     



    Er...what a strange thing to say.

    If you constantly expend, on a daily basis, 500 calories more than you consume, then you will lose 1 lb. a week.  Period.

    (ignoring, for the moment, the very, very, very small percentage of people with bizarre thyroid and other medical conditions)

    It's simple physics. There's a reason why the entire medical establishment, who have been studying this issue for years, all sing the same song.

    However, the problem people have is that:

    a) it's difficult to determine exactly what your metabolic rate is, so it's difficult to determine exactly how much energy you expend;

    b) it's fairly difficult to accurately and consistently chart exactly what you're eating and how much energy is actually consumed;

    c) charting and tracking your weight is difficult, because the "signal" of your actual weight is often buried in the "noise" of daily fluctuations due to water weight, etc.;

    d) they're impatient; people tend to shy away from the slow, long term, gradual changes that are the necessary antecedant to lasting weight loss, and embrace any number of crazy fads and dramatic promises of rapid, lasting gain.

    Solve those problems, and there are solutions to all those problems, and weight loss is automatic for most people.

  • luke77 Rookie 20 posts since
    May 18, 2004

    Guys. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? FatHobbit is not only saying that she maintains her weight on 800 calories a day with 3 hours cardio and an hour weight lifting, she is saying that she GAINED 40 pounds over the winter (3-4 months) eating 1200 calories a day. This is not a thyroid problem or some kind of endocrine disorder, it's simply not possible. Lemonsong is the only one speaking any sense at all. Certainly people can have extremely an slow metabolism and I might have believed it if she said she was gaining weight on 1200 calories a day and no exercise, but it's simply impossible with 3 hours of cardio a day. Period.

  • sixfeetsmall3x5 Rookie 118 posts since
    Apr 27, 2005

    quote:


    Originally posted by luke77:

    Guys. Do you realize how ridiculous this sounds? FatHobbit is not only saying that she maintains her weight on 800 calories a day with 3 hours cardio and an hour weight lifting, she is saying that she GAINED 40 pounds over the winter (3-4 months) eating 1200 calories a day. This is not a thyroid problem or some kind of endocrine disorder, it's simply not possible. Lemonsong is the only one speaking any sense at all. Certainly people can have extremely an slow metabolism and I might have believed it if she said she was gaining weight on 1200 calories a day and no exercise, but it's simply impossible with 3 hours of cardio a day. Period.


     



    I think it's more important to keep an open mind about things.  We're not doctors (well maybe some are...) who can properly diagnose these folks.  It's not our place to say it's "impossible."  Not related to exercise or eating...but my sister was having issues with bizzare symptoms a while back, where everyone was saying "it's impossible" "it can't happen" "you're lying" and "it can't be true."  Every doctor she went to said exactly the same thing.  One night, her appendix exploded and she almost died.  She wasn't lying.  Sometimes the body does bizarre things, and it certainly isn't anyone's place on a message board to tell them they are lying and it's impossible.  Maybe it's not.  I think the original poster's intent was to look for support and a doctor recommendation, and we have given neither of these as a result.  Obviously they are trying to get help, and instead of helping, if I was the original poster, I would be running for the hills and never ask for help here again...

  • lemonsong Rookie 39 posts since
    Nov 16, 2004

    quote:


    Originally posted by sixfeetsmall3x5:

    It's not our place to say it's "impossible."


     



    Unless of course it really is impossible.

    It takes energy to do 3 hours of cardio and one hour of weight lifting every day, or to run over 100 miles per week. Lots of energy. That energy has to come from somewhere. There are three possibilities. Your body can metabolize food, fat, or muscle.

    If you force your body to do 4000 calories of work in a day, it will call on an energy source. If you are not eating enough energy, it will metabolize fat (ideally) or muscle. Either way, someone working a massive calorie deficit will lose weight because their body will literally "eat" itself. It has no choice. There's no way fathobbit and cadburyegg could maintain their supposed lifestyles for more than (my guess here) a month without either getting very sick or dying. Yet not only do they live, they continue to work out HARD, and they claim that somehow fat is magically appearing on their bodies even in the state of extreme starvation they're subjecting themselves to.

    It's complete bull crap. They're not telling the whole story and anyone who buys it is not thinking clearly.

    If they're being sincere then they're deluded and I feel bad for them and they should seek medical attention (physiological and psychological) immidiately.

  • Stevie Ray Lopez Pro 500 posts since
    Dec 3, 2007

    Alright.

    Are we making progress here?
    Are we learning anything?

    I mean, anything beyond "here's a person that I don't think I'd want to talk to in real life".

    Are we?

    These threads absolutely SUCK. 1970 on the previous page had what I consider to be a very well-written post that makes sense.

    But it's easier to call people lying liars and suggest that they need psychological help (which, many with EDs probably do... but we're just a bunch of random people on a message board who don't know enough about particular situations.)

    Let's go back to discussing recipes and sh1t.  These threads are really tiresome.

  • Detroit094 Rookie 133 posts since
    Mar 14, 2005

    I really could go for some banana bread.

    Oh, for the OP - investigate the Lahey Clinic in Mass.  I've gone there a number of times, and they are terrific.

  • Molly229 Amateur 17 posts since
    Nov 12, 2005

    I am exactly the same as FatHobbit when it comes to weight loss.

    I'm 44 yrs young, 5lb tall and right now 137lbs. I was 127 last summer, gained about 4 lbs and then started training for a marathon and gained the rest.

    I'm barely eating 1200 calories a day right now. I feel good, I eat until I'm satisfied, quality food. I do indulge occasionally in a couple of cookies or a chocolate bar.

    Am I losing weight? Never in a million years. The equation of input less output = weight loss just does not work for me.

    I journal using Diet Power daily, I am honest in my journalling, even if I've had a bad day. If I am out to dinner, I guess my calories based on similiar menu items in Diet Power. I've been at this for 5 years, consistently. I started a size 12 and now am a size 8, but the scale has barely budged.

    Last summer when I got to 127, I ate higher portein, lower carb food, and worked out 10x a week with a mix of cardio and weights. It was not sustainable !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/frown.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/frown.gif|border=0!

    I believe FatHobbit!!

    BTW....I've had my thyroid tested and so forth.  Nothings wrong with me.  I often wonder if the chemicals in our food hasn't altered our ability to shed fat.

  • asianfury Rookie 24 posts since
    Jun 5, 2005

    Whether or not the posters are lying, it sounds like there are underlying emotional problems that an online forum can't fix.

  • volpicellina Rookie 4 posts since
    Sep 8, 2003

    well this thread is one of the reasons I've stopped posting here. Plus that I've come to a peace with my body anyway.

    Being called a liar when you are struggling with something just sucks. And when one is recovering from an ED, being told that you just aren't 'counting right' or you must be 'eating too much' can make things so much worse.

    For what its worth, I believe you FatHobbit and CadburyEgg since I was there myself, still am in some ways but was never quite as bad off as either of you, but could have easily gotten there.

    I was always kind of a big girl, 5'6, 140, very muscular, then when I started playing hockey and as I got older and more 'hip-y' hit 155. I didn't like this since I was on the BMI edge and despite 'looking' fine (25% bf I am guessing, since I am about that now) decided to lose weight. I was eating maybe 2200-2400 a day and was pretty active - hockey, frisbee, running, biking. Probably was eating less than most that active already, and then cut to 1800. Then when I plateaued, 1500. Plus upping exercise, to about 2-3 hrs a day.

    I never really hit my 'goal' weight of 135 - but at 138 or so my period stopped. I was at 11% bodyfat according to calipers and did look WAY too skinny - I look at pictures from then now and my whole face looked strange, my mouth way too big for my face and you can see muscle striations, etc. But I was so caught up in being 'normal' (5'6, 130-135) that I didn't see what I was really doing.

    Anyway, when I started training for the marathon I had gone to the ER for 'intestinal distress' and the ER doc there clued me in to my eating disorder - here i was thinking it was a failed diet, that left me stuck eating too little and doing too much, but she noticed on the catscan I had too little fat around my organs for them to even see them properly. So I decided to eat more.

    I threw out the scale and my skinny clothes and ate around 1800, but gained weight so fast that I kind of got stuck at that number for a year. I thought I was close to my regular weight but it felt bigger and heavier than it did pre-ed, and when weighed at the doctor I found I was almost 170. My metabolism was basically stuck at 'need 1500 when exercising 2hrs a day' and so that extra 300 calories for a year simply got put on as weight. It makes sense 300 calories x 365 = 30lbs. I had simply thought there was some way to get back to needing 2200-2400, but no such luck. I cut back to 1500 which stopped the gain, but no loss.

    I did see an endocrinologist, who basically said the ED screwed me up and maybe with patience my metabolism would return to normal levels. But that if everyone was the same, and didn't adapt to low calories, then no one would have survived famines and the like back in the day. And to listen to my body and not get hung up on what I 'should' eat according to popular opinion, since everyones hormones are different, burn rates are different, etc.

    I ended up seeing a nutritionist which helped. She noticed diabetes did run in my family, took some fasting glucose tests which did point to a slight pre-diabetes condition. I was still 170 and eating 1500 with about 2hrs of exercise a day. Switching around some carbs for protein (keeping carbs under 150g a day) let me lose back down to 155.

    This past winter I've tried cutting back on exercise, which seems to have slightly worked. I now only do about 10hrs a week (running, hockey, biking, no disc yet) and eat around the same, and gained a tiny bit, but not that much and am maintaining again. So I am hoping this will just be a slow process of getting my body used to things. I trained it to operate on barely anything, it is just not bouncing back that quickly.

    I do think when people have full-blown eating disorders their metabolisms recover more quickly if they just give up and eat a lot because they are forced to, by parents or hospitals. For those of us with subclinical varieties, who 'recover' on their own, there is a maintaining of low calories and control that I think ends up hurting us. If you read the 'starvation study' where they limited those guys to 1500 a day, not all lost a LOT of weight, and they do note that those who ate a LOT right away had BMR's that recovered faster. But that everyone, regardless of binging afterwards or not, gained 10-15% more bodyweight post-study, then settled out after a year. And it wasn't because of the typical 'they lost muscle' reasons, I think its just a natural reaction to starvation.

    anyway, i try and listen to my body more and its just not that hungry. I don't get thirsty either. Ill never be skinny, Ill never be inefficient like my friend M who is hot all the time and needs 3K calories a day and doesn't exercise. Instead I am cold all the time, have poor circulation, Raynauds, etc. But, I can bike 100mi in a day and not get tired, not need water or food. (the husband and I did this last summer, biked from Boston to the Cape, we had to keep stopping to feed him, etc, and he was exhausted afterwards) I can run my first marathon in ridiculous weather and get a qualifier. I can play day-long tournaments. So whatever. I've made peace with it. So I am not like most people, who is? Does anyone REALLY think we all boil down to a MATH equation? A simple one at that?

    I like the 'it is just simple physics' - have you TAKEN physics? It is far, far from simple. I am sure we all have some nonlinear differential equations in us when it comes to adaption and how to operate on less food. We are built to survive, we are NOT built to measure how food by how much of it takes to heat water up one degree, figure out how much energy our body needs by that math, and say that we are one simple equation in = out with no adjustments made inside that equals sign. Sure in = out, but our bodies change the rules all the time by needing less.

  • this place is so lame035 Rookie 92 posts since
    Feb 21, 2006

    quote:


    Originally posted by volpicellina:


    I like the 'it is just simple physics' - have you TAKEN physics?


     



    Yes, I have a PhD in physics. And the law of conservation of energy cannot be violated, even by the human body. Due to a variety of reasons, people have vastly different metabolic rates. Because of this, some people can get away with eating a lot without getting fat and some people have to be much much more careful.

    However, benchpressing 50 kilograms 20 times requires the same amount of energy no matter what your metabolic rate (ignoring differences in arm length). That's true with all kinds of exercise. You can't create energy from nothing.

    The bottom line is that running 100 miles/week and eating 800 calories/day is impossible to maintain indefinitely.

  • this place is so lame035 Rookie 92 posts since
    Feb 21, 2006

    quote:


    Originally posted by volpicellina:


    My metabolism was basically stuck at 'need 1500 when exercising 2hrs a day' and so that extra 300 calories for a year simply got put on as weight. It makes sense 300 calories x 365 = 30lbs.


    Does anyone REALLY think we all boil down to a MATH equation? A simple one at that?


     



    Apparently you do. You just justified how your body reacted to additional calories by using the tried and true 3500 calories = 1 pound formula.



    [http://This message has been edited by this place is so lame (edited Apr-04-2006).|http://This message has been edited by this place is so lame (edited Apr-04-2006).]

  • volpicellina Rookie 4 posts since
    Sep 8, 2003

    quote:


    Originally posted by this place is so lame:

    Yes, I have a PhD in physics. And the law of conservation of energy cannot be violated, even by the human body. Due to a variety of reasons, people have vastly different metabolic rates. Because of this, some people can get away with eating a lot without getting fat and some people have to be much much more careful.

    However, benchpressing 50 kilograms 20 times requires the same amount of energy no matter what your metabolic rate (ignoring differences in arm length). That's true with all kinds of exercise. You can't create energy from nothing.

    The bottom line is that running 100 miles/week and eating 800 calories/day is impossible to maintain indefinitely.


     




    I guess I was pointing out more that sure, the conservation of energy is held, but how do you see that running the same distance takes the same amount of energy? We've seen that people can have efficient or non-efficient strides, etc. Walking takes less than running, for instance. Or what your body does all day instead lowers - stays at 96-97 degrees in my case, and pumps blood badly, etc. Cuts corners.

    I don't argue with the indefinitely though, you do end up at some point like I did, in the ER. It can take a while though, I sustained 'impossibility' for a year. My mother, who was anorexic for 10 years, was told by doctors each year she couldn't survive doing what she did for another year. She was surviving on about 300 calories a day, and running 40mpw. She still barely eats, but when she ate a tiny bit more, to 'recover' she gained 25lbs very quickly. Now her body does have a ton of problems, osteoperosis, etc., but doesn't need much to function. We are all amazed that she survived that long with no food.

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