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26 Replies Last post: Apr 22, 2006 10:37 PM by runnerparris   Go to original post 1 2 Previous Next
Click to view jrich7970's profile Legend 238 posts since
Oct 1, 2007
15. Apr 19, 2006 7:36 PM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
So, just how does it work when a person has bariatric surgery. How do they lose weight?

I googled "starvation" mode, by the way, and came up with over 10,000 hits.

No, I did not check every one of them out, but I did check several hundred.

Every one of them was either a repeat of another, a link, or someone's opinion or unsubstatiated claim.

I loved one. Kept on citing "the research", but then when asked, could not come up with "the research".

A lot of references to magazines like "Men's Health", "Prevention", etc, etc., etc...



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Jeff
Click to view runnerparris's profile Legend 365 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
16. Apr 19, 2006 8:06 PM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
I too believe that "starvation mode" is a bad description. I do believe that our body has "set points", but this is simply a balancing act as Leah suggested above.

The poster said herself that she ate between 1800-2200 a day. 2200 is probably too much, 1800 not enough. Her body simply likes her current weight and balances accordingly.

The good part about this is it works both ways. My husband is overweight. He eats too much most of the time, but not all the time. He pretty much stays right where he's at. He doesn't gain anymore.

Eat more than you need you gain, eat less you lose, just right- maintain. However, it's not something that adjusts on a daily basis. It's a balance over time.

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Click to view teetime's profile Legend 459 posts since
Aug 17, 2002
17. Apr 20, 2006 12:55 AM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
There isn't a lot of empirical research on starvation mode because doing "good" (scientifically sound) studies would require unethical research.

However, those of you who doubt it happens might consider that anorexic individuals do have symptoms one can see, such as lanugo (growth of fine hair on face, arms etc). If the body will promote hair growth to keep the individual warm, why is it hard to believe the body will slow metabolic activity to preserve fat stores?
Click to view HSunshine's profile Pro 196 posts since
Sep 15, 2003
18. Apr 20, 2006 9:54 AM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by teetime:
There isn't a lot of empirical research on starvation mode because doing "good" (scientifically sound) studies would require unethical research.

However, those of you who doubt it happens might consider that anorexic individuals do have symptoms one can see, such as lanugo (growth of fine hair on face, arms etc). If the body will promote hair growth to keep the individual warm, why is it hard to believe the body will slow metabolic activity to preserve fat stores?
<HR>


Exactly! While I doubt "starvation mode" is relevant to any non-emaciated person ... there are a lot of changes that happen upon true starvation - core body temp is lowered, stress hormones are elevated which promotes fat storage, reproductive systems are shut off, etc. - all to preserve any calories that come in. Why anyone would debate this occurance, I have no idea. Any animal that cannot (evolutionarily speaking) adapt to times of little food would have become extinct pretty quickly.
Click to view Detroit094's profile Pro 133 posts since
Mar 14, 2005
19. Apr 20, 2006 10:09 AM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
I think starvation mode, when applied to dieting, is simply meant to mean drastically undereating to the point where your metabolism is wacked. I think "starvation" is just too harsh of a word.

This the problem with long term dieting or restriction. You can eat less over a period of time and you should lose weight. However, the body is extremely adaptable, as has been pointed out, and will do just about anything if it thinks its in trouble. You end up with a slower metabolism. Not where you want to be. Everyone probably knows someone who is a perfect example of this. The 125 pound guy who eats everything in sight and loses weight, or the woman that looks at cheesecake and puts on pounds. The body is a funny thing.
Click to view KimmiL's profile Rookie 4 posts since
Dec 30, 2005
20. Apr 20, 2006 7:29 PM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by figbash:
The starvation mode theory is just an excuse for people who eat too much already, to eat even more. If this so called starvation mode theory was valid, then why does this guy look like he does?



If you want to lose weight, you need to reduce your calorie intake to the point where you burn more than you need. It's that simple.

Tom

<HR>



I think that it is pretty repulsive that you posted this picture. Furthermore, someone who has basically never eaten in his or her life will have completely different biological and physiological responses than someone who has eaten an adequate diet for the majority of their life and begins to severly restrict calories.

I would explain it to you, but the fact that you posted this picture in such a hideously offensive manner suggests to me that you are not intelligent enough to understand it.
Click to view this place is so lame035's profile Pro 92 posts since
Feb 21, 2006
21. Apr 22, 2006 11:20 AM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
Eating too few calories cannot make you heavier. Starvation mode is a myth propagated by people who can't control their cravings, therefore need excuses for their inability to control their appetie.

Yes, reducing your calories can lower your base metabolic rate, but it doens't reduce your metabolic rate any more than the reduction in your calories consumed, so lowering caloric intake is guaranteed to result in weight loss.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/likness34.htm[/URL" target="_blank">



Q: How do I avoid "starvation mode?"

A: I always love the starvation mode argument. "Don't go under 1000 calories or you'll be in starvation mode." Starvation is when you are not getting nutrients or energy - zilch, nada. It is true starvation - i.e. not eating.

No, you will not go into some special mode after 6 hours of not eating. I've fasted for days before, and contrary to the popular trend, I did not suddenly lose 15 tons of muscle mass and become a thin sluggish weakling. I fasted for spiritual reasons and when I was done, I eased back into my regular nutrition program and was fine.

Starvation mode is something that serves two purposes. In the mind of marketers, its a great scare tactic to shock people into buying supplements to make sure they have something on the road and don't go into that scary starvation mode. It is also great to market systems because Americans like to eat. So any system that says, "Lose fat by eating more" is going to sell.

The second purpose it serves is for the person on the diet. It is a great justification for never going low enough to achieve phenomenal results - after all, they may kick into starvation mode. Better to have a reason to keep calories up and blame the inability to lose that last bit of ab flab on something else.

Seriously: when you lower calories, your metabolism goes down. This isn't starvation mode, this is your metabolism slowing down. The thing is, who cares? I know the trend is to say it's better to eat more and have a burning metabolism.

Personally, I don't see how a slow metabolism is any worse than a fast one if you are eating nutrient dense. In other words, I know of a 1200 calorie diet with far more nutrients than a typical American 3000 calorie diet. If it is sustainable and enjoyable, who cares if the metabolism is a bit slower? The idea is that it is easier to lose fat, but if you reach your goal and are maintaining, theoretically you don't have to lose more fat.
Click to view this place is so lame035's profile Pro 92 posts since
Feb 21, 2006
22. Apr 22, 2006 11:24 AM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by CSuzette:

Okay yes...I believe in cutting carbs to lose weight...others here don't. But, don't knock it until you try it!
<HR>


What about these men and women? They eat a very high carb diet. How come they're not fat?



Click to view this place is so lame035's profile Pro 92 posts since
Feb 21, 2006
23. Apr 22, 2006 11:44 AM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by KimmiL:

I would explain it to you, but the fact that you posted this picture in such a hideously offensive manner suggests to me that you are not intelligent enough to understand it.
<HR>


I'd be interested in the explanation.
Click to view refinnej10's profile Pro 65 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
24. Apr 22, 2006 2:05 PM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
Just for kicks and giggles, I'll opine my take on the "starvation mode" phenomena. For the record, in regards to mainstream dieting (thereby neglecting unfortunate souls who are, in fact, starving to death) I don't think "starvation mode" exists. If it did, then gastric bypass surgery would not work. Folks who have gastric bypass lose dramatic amounts of weight and do not gain weight as the starvation mode theory would predict. Therefore, we can conclude that severe caloric restriction does not cause weight gain.

I usually replace the term "starvation mode" with "momentum." Your weight has momentum, if it is increasing it wants to continue increasing.

I'll offer up an analogy to better explain. Let's say that a person gaining weight is like a car going forward and a person losing weight is like a car going backward. Ok, so I'm a person who wants to lose weight. It stands to reason that I am in a weight gain mode, analogously, the car is moving forward. In this case a diet would be like hitting the brakes in the car or putting it into reverse (we'll pretend that putting the car in reverse would not destroy its transmission). Upon hitting the brakes or putting the car in reverse, the car will continue to move forward for a time before it slows down, stops and starts going backward. That's momentum.

Going on a diet effectively puts a force on your body that initially slows weight gain, then stops weight gain, before becoming weight loss. How long these stages last probably depends on any number of factors (how long one has been at current weight, how many lbs needed to lose, how severe the calorie deficit, etc.)

Does this make sense to anyone besides me?
Click to view this place is so lame035's profile Pro 92 posts since
Feb 21, 2006
25. Dec 21, 2007 5:37 PM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by refinnej10:
If it did, then gastric bypass surgery would not work. Folks who have gastric bypass lose dramatic amounts of weight and do not gain weight as the starvation mode theory would predict. Therefore, we can conclude that severe caloric restriction does not cause weight gain.<HR>


Exactly! That's an excellent point about the bypass surgery.


quote:<HR>Originally posted by refinnej10:

Going on a diet effectively puts a force on your body that initially slows weight gain, then stops weight gain, before becoming weight loss.

Does this make sense to anyone besides me?
<HR>


Nope. I like the analogy, but I don't think there's such thing as physiological momentum.

The day you reduce your calorie intake to the point where it is less than your calorie expenditure, you will begin to lose weight.

Most people embarking on a weight loss program are, as you point out, in a weight gaining mode. Thus, such a person would first have to reduce calories simply to stop gaining weight. A further calorie reduction is necessary for weight loss.

So a person who was gaining 1-lb (3500 Cal) per week would have to recduce their caloric intake by 7000 Cal per week in order to achieve a 1-lb per week weight loss.



http://This message has been edited by this place is so lame (edited Apr-22-2006).
Click to view runnerparris's profile Legend 365 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
26. Apr 22, 2006 10:37 PM in response to: sclark2085
Re: could too LITTLE calories be making me heavier?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by KimmiL:


I would explain it to you, but the fact that you posted this picture in such a hideously offensive manner suggests to me that you are not intelligent enough to understand it.
<HR>


I would be interested as well.