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2177 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Jun 28, 2012 6:21 AM by NELL_blue
NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
May 21, 2010
Currently Being Moderated

Jun 24, 2012 4:55 PM

Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

Question...  Batter hit's infield grounder, throws bat and hits catcher hard. Thrown out at first. Umpire warns batter and entire bench about throwing bats.

2 innings later, same batter as in first explanation hits a double, when he gets to 2nd, ump calls time, eject player and calls him out. 

Manager asks for explanation and ump tosses him. Assistant coach come to get manager and ump tosses him, too!

Needless to say they came over to me the following day after serving their 1 game suspension. (I am UIC for the league) We are using paid umps for the tournament.

 

 

Where did the ump come up with rule for the out??  Shouldn't he have ruled the ejection and had a rostered player come in as runner?  Have to admit, never had this issue.

 

Anyone have a rule for me to look at?  I sure can't find it, other than 9.02(b)





Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • BlueBeak Legend 300 posts since
    Nov 26, 2002
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jun 24, 2012 5:21 PM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    Where did the ump come up with rule for the out??

     

     

    From his head is my guess. Toss the offender for UC if you so deem, but an out? Nope. 9.01 (d) covers the ejection, but a called "out"? I don't have it.

     

    Beowulf?





    Time wounds all heels.....

  • Mark_in_SD Legend 207 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jun 24, 2012 7:20 PM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    What rule set?

     

    LL - No such rule.  You can get an ejection per the RIM, but no out.

     

    Straight OBR - No such rule and really a stretch for an ejection unless you rule intent or the organization you are umpiring for provides guidance like LL does.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jun 25, 2012 5:09 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Re: Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    The subject of not being allowed to  call a batter out for throwing a bat is clearly spelled out in one sentence... the LL Publication....."MakeThe Right Call" .....bottom of page 26.

     

    Quote:  "A batter shall not be called "out" after hitting a pitched ball just for throwing their bat."

     

    Frank!

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jun 25, 2012 7:47 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Re: Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    This is a PIROOMA.

     

    By the way, how did the protest turn out? 

     

    Mike

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jun 25, 2012 8:33 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    You could get an out, if the bat strikes the catcher, and directly interfers with him making a play (fielding a bunt, or taking a throw at the plate).

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Jun 27, 2012 11:57 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    NELL_blue wrote:

     

    No protest was placed officially since manager and his assitant were tossed before they got an answer.



    What about the other coach?

     

    Also, I may be wrong, but I think they still could have filed a protest.  I don't think there's anything in the rules that says a manager who gets ejected cannot protest.  Win or lose the protest, he still would have to leave (unless W-port deems in its resolution of the protest that the manager was wrongfully ejected).

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jun 28, 2012 7:47 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Re: Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    "We are using Paid Umps for the Tournament"  - well, did you get what you paid for !!!  

     

    This is from the Ask Andy Webcast a number of years ago:

    Ray, a local Little League umpire-in-chief in Spring Hill, Fla., asks:

    How do you handle or what can be done when a batter throws the bat after a hit, striking another player with the thrown bat? I would assume that if done intentionally, it would be unsportsmanlike conduct, but what about the player who just does it as a reflex action?

    Andy:

    I’d talk to that player’s manager about it, so the player can be instructed. If it keeps happening, the manager should take the player out of the lineup. There is no rule that allows an umpire to call a batter out for throwing the bat, under any circumstances (even if intentional).

     

    Contrary to the last sentence of the response, throwing the bat intentionally to "interfere" with a play would/could result in an out (as previously posted).

    "Technically though" in that situation the batter is out for "interference" not for "throwing the bat" !!!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jun 27, 2012 1:44 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    In a fashion I believe Manny is on to something in regard to the Tournament Committe at Williamsport acting on a game situation where no official protest by a manager or coach was filed.

     

    Back in 2010 wording was added to page T-2 of the LL rulebook.

    Such wording stated the TC could act, and make a decision......"imposing a penalty the committee deems appropiate, if the committee determines action is necessary to correct a situation---BROUGHT TO ITS ATTENTION, REGARDLESS OF THE SOURCE OF THAT INFORMATION. The decision of the committee is final and binding."    caps mine!

     

    To me that "source" could be one of many others associated with the event. Ex: a TD or DA! 

     

    Frank!

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jun 27, 2012 2:27 PM (in response to Frank_B)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    Several years ago in a Softball Sectional a manager was "ejected" for asking an umpire if he would confer with the other umpires about a ruling (manager asked for time, it was granted, he walked out to the umpire who made the call and asked if he would confer with another umpire who might have a different interpretation of the rule - force play versus timing play).

    The Umpire ejected the manager for "questioning his rules knowledge"!

    The manager went directly to the TD (who was standing next to the backstop) and explained what happened.

    All of the Umpire were called over to the fence by the TD.

    The TD and Umpires conferred and the manager was correct and the call was changed.

    The TD called the Region/Williamsport and the "Ejection" was nullified.

     

    You never know what will happen at a Tournament Game !!!  

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jun 28, 2012 5:58 AM (in response to Lou_B)
    Thrown Bat Ejection, but also an Out?

    That's what I suspected.  Consider the alternative:  an umpire could eject the manager and two coaches just to avoid the protest.

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