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2182 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Jul 10, 2012 12:17 PM by Mark__P RSS
LPBTexas Amateur 21 posts since
May 30, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 6, 2012 8:52 AM

Calander days rest

Junior game goes past mid-night and coach ask if his pitcher is now eligible?

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jul 6, 2012 9:41 AM (in response to LPBTexas)
    Re: Calander days rest

    I hate these type of questions.  Definition of what is a day is in the rules, so I would say technically you could. BUT, I would make a call upstairs and mention that possible abuse of the rule is being attempted. If I smell a rat, maybe they would, too!!





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jul 6, 2012 11:37 AM (in response to LPBTexas)
    Re: Calander days rest

    Given other relevant facts known only to the person asking the question; and/or known only to other persons, officials, manager, etc,.

    present at the game---no person on THIS board has enough information to answer the question.

    For example: re the pitcher the OP's question applies to:  has the calendar day the subject game at hand started, now gone past midnite, fulfilled whatever number of days rest the subject pitcher was required to fill from his last outing?

     

    The subject scheduled  game date, now gone past midnite, comprising a calendar day, would count as one(1)----toward that pitcher's required days rest----just possible, that one day not fulfilling the requirement. All else being equal, if one(1) calendar's rest applies to the subject pitcher, he would be good to pitch past midnite.

     

    Other factors in re to the subject potential replacement pitcher being eligible-----also not known to us on this board.

     

    keeping in mind, for Juniors, no new inning may be started after 12:30 AM.

     

    Frank!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jul 6, 2012 2:37 PM (in response to LPBTexas)
    Re: Calander days rest

    Well, I totaly accept that ruling----as it makes sense!

    It never entered my mind.

     

    Frank!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jul 7, 2012 7:03 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    Calander days rest

    However, a belated thought---- I am curious about the subject player being eligible to participate in the game if the game is suspended, for the same reason as the player being.. " ineligible at the start of the game."   [Same game, albeit suspended??]

     

    Frank!

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jul 7, 2012 10:42 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    Calander days rest

    I might be reaching here, but I assuming this has to do with rest for the pitcher. So if he needed one more day rest, and the game went after midnight, the answer would be no. BUT if the game is suspended say at 12:30 AM, and let's say later that same day at 2:00 PM it is resumed, the pitcher could pitch then.

     

    Does that make sense? Looks like Region said that a game started on Tuesday and continues into Wednesday does no constitute and new day, but a game starts Tuesday, get's suspended early Wednesday morning, and resumes on Wednesday a pitcher can come in the same day following a suspension and pitch if he hit his days rest.





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jul 7, 2012 1:02 PM (in response to NELL_blue)
    Calander days rest

    For the moment---putting aside all that you brought forward NELL-----I have been looking thru the Rulebook, the Rim, The Right Call, and other collected written material in re to the OP's subject scenario for an excerpt I "THOUGHT" I read somewhere that stated...in so many words...." a suspended game, when resumed, is to be treated as being the same game when it comes to players that were ineligible at the start of the game, being still ineligible when the game is resumed."         

     

    Of course we are dealing with an OP's situation very rarely happening----but obviously could and did occur.

     

    Looking for help (from others here) to verify or negate what I "thought" I read; or my (possibly) confusing it with another suspended game situation.

     

    Frank!

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Jul 9, 2012 7:04 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    Calander days rest

    Frank, what you may be confusing is the fact that a pitcher who becomes ineligible in a called game (e.g., he pitched and then was removed from the game for a sub prior to the game being suspended) remains ineligible when the game resumes.

     

    Rest requirements are per calendar day, not per game.  If a pitcher has to rest today to complete his rest requirement, he is completely legal tomorrow.  Should a game today be suspended for tomorrow, he gains his eligibility to pitch.

     

    I guess I don't care for SWR's ruling in the OP's situation.  The rest rule clearly states "calendar day", so when midnight is reached, we have a new calendar day, do we not?  What's the difference between the game continuing on past midnight, and the game being suspended after midnight due to curfew and then resuming eight hours later?  They say the pitcher can't pitch in the former, but he can in the latter.  Why?  If the kid has stayed off the mound for the right number of calendar days, by rule, then he should gain his full eligibility.

     

    If there is an exception to be made for this particular case, then state so in the rules.

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jul 9, 2012 7:14 AM (in response to Manny_A)
    Calander days rest

    I hear you Manny! 

     

    But, if I can hypothesize.  It may be a teams advantage to use stall tactics to make the night game longer in order to invoke the pitchers availability if based on calendar. I am ok with their ruling that if a game starts on a Tuesday the eligibilty on that game stays Tuesday until the uniterrupted completion of that game.  They have to look at situational intent, not the rule as written in some cases.





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Mark__P Pro 112 posts since
    Jun 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jul 9, 2012 1:37 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Calander days rest

    Manny_A wrote:

     

    [snip]

     

    I guess I don't care for SWR's ruling in the OP's situation.  The rest rule clearly states "calendar day", so when midnight is reached, we have a new calendar day, do we not?  What's the difference between the game continuing on past midnight, and the game being suspended after midnight due to curfew and then resuming eight hours later?  They say the pitcher can't pitch in the former, but he can in the latter.  Why?  If the kid has stayed off the mound for the right number of calendar days, by rule, then he should gain his full eligibility.

     

    If there is an exception to be made for this particular case, then state so in the rules.

     

    Let's look at the flip side. Are you going to take the pitcher off the mound at midnight (in the middle of an at-bat) because he pitched on Tuesday and requires days of rest starting on Wednesday?

     

    What about the (Juniors) starting pitcher who was removed from the mound but remained in the game - can he throw 50 pitches to start the game on Tuesday and then come back to close it out on Wednesday at 12:10am?

     

    If the pitcher can remain in the game, do the pitches thrown on Tuesday count differently from the pitches thrown on Wednesday for determining days of rest?

     

    Changing the "calendar day" in the middle of the game opens a can of worms - perhaps even more than suspending the game and resuming it the next day

     

    The easy (and, IMO, sensible) thing is to simply say that everything that happens up to the curfew is as if it happened on the calendar day on which the game started.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jul 9, 2012 3:56 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Re: Calander days rest

    Manny:  I still may be "confused" as to the correct rule applying; but my "confusion" deals with a pitcher who was ineligible to pitch when the game began becoming eligible to pitch upon resumption ( another day) of the game.   {Same game applying}

     

     

    Not with a pitcher who actually pitched in the game and was replaced prior to the game being suspended. That is clear and understood, that pitcher cannot, as you correctly noted, pitch again when the subject game is resumed another day.

     

    Frank!

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Jul 10, 2012 11:54 AM (in response to Mark__P)
    Calander days rest

    Touche, Mark.  I certainly have no issues after you pose the flipside.

     

    Still, it is something that should be covered by the tournament rules or the FAQs, along with how pitches delivered in called games and when they resume should be tallied for rest purposes.

  • Mark__P Pro 112 posts since
    Jun 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Jul 10, 2012 12:17 PM (in response to Manny_A)
    Calander days rest

    Manny_A wrote:

     

    [snip]

     

    Still, it is something that should be covered by the tournament rules or the FAQs, along with how pitches delivered in called games and when they resume should be tallied for rest purposes.

     

    I agree completely - it would be nice to have a sentence indicating that playing past midnight doesn't change the calendar day of the game.

     

    Clarifying how to calculate days of rest required after the continuation of a suspended game (for pitchers who pitch in both halves) is much more important, IMO.

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