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2892 Views 16 Replies Latest reply: Jul 25, 2012 7:01 AM by Frank_B RSS 1 2 Previous Next
Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
May 30, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 13, 2012 8:57 AM

The Little league Inc. "RIM."      ?????

Given a relatively "slow board".....and as a result of a previous thread entitled.. "Double play on INT" put up by Mike CVUA;  joined by myself, Manny and others; where Manny and myself entered into a civil discussion that more or less centered on "THE RIM"----and being aware I am possibly "stomping on sacred ground"  I question the practicality of  "The RIM" being of any value at league level, and specifically as an "aide" in settling controversies arising in an ongoing game  regard the existence of a rule, the interpretaion of a rule, or the non-existence of a rule.

 

I do recognize its value in settling a controversy/debate/discussion among participants on these boards-----but stops there!

 

Why?  [ and the answer to why?----is known to just about all of us posting on these boards]

Ans: By Willamsport's policy----"THE RIM"---and the way Williamsport wants it be----is only (legally) available to a selected few; hardly ever, unless "bootlegged".. available to settle a question at league level.

 

Case in point: Manny, in the aforementioned thread, correctly quoted a RIM excerpt that described the manner in which a LL baserunner could legally break-up a double play.  Try telling that to a LL Umpire, manager, coach, protest committee, who have never seen a RIM, and even know one exists.

And recognized that the subject Manny quoted is not mentioned/written in ANY publication that is available, in general legal distribution to ALL Little league personnel.   Rulebook, Right Call, Hometown, etc.

 

"You may fire when ready Gridley"      ------> edited for historical correctness!

 

Frank!

  • CranberryBlue Pro 94 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jul 13, 2012 11:22 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    That's been one of my issues forever. I don't see how you can use a 'secret' tome for much of anything. It's a great resource that should be available to all leagues.

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jul 13, 2012 2:02 PM (in response to Frank_B)
    Re: The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    The RIM is what it is. It's a book that instructors use to teach umpires. You can't pull it out on the field, or the protest committee meeting, to settle rule intepretations. It was designed to be used at the Regional schools, so the instructors could all be on the same page, as it were, and teach the same things. And, it's also handy for us instructors at the field level.

     

    It doesn't superceed the rulebook, or OM. If there are any differences, the RIM takes a back seat every time.

  • CranberryBlue Pro 94 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jul 14, 2012 12:40 PM (in response to Frank_B)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    Hey frank - I'm back living in a LL town & umpiring there so I'm back at eteamz.

  • CranberryBlue Pro 94 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jul 15, 2012 6:22 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    Re: The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    Didn't know it was renovated, my company has been out of Charlestown for years - after we moved to Newton we moved to Needham & became a virtual office - now most of the employees work from home so I went from 92 miles round trip commute to 0.

     

    This town is more of a 'coaches league'. LOTS of the major's player play travel ball too so the league basically runs from Mon-Thu with a few Friday games thrown in. It's only a 12 game schedule and nobody plays on Saturdays.

     

    Being the busybody I made my first task getting rid of the local 'must slide' rule. That was pretty easy. You may remember I asked about a year ago about where the LL statement of 'no league may make a must-slide' was. Between that & showing the UIC the statistics of sliding being the most dangerous baseball task a youth player can do, within 2 weeks I got the word the 'must slide' rule was gone. I haven't decided which of the next local rules to go after - either the 5 run max per inning or the curveball ban. These are BOTH in majors btw.

     

    Depending on how long I stay in this area I may resurrect umpiring class. They use the kids on the bases but the training is minimal. Umpiring is looked on here as a necessary evil as opposed to a way to keep the older kids involved & give it more of a community feel.

     

    Don Quixote rides again - where's the d*mn windmill?

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jul 17, 2012 2:22 PM (in response to CranberryBlue)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    I too welcome you back CB.

     

    5 run rule and curveball ban -  ARRGGHH !!!!     

     

    As you well know, things take time so take it slow and easy and pick the fights you can win.

     

     

    As for the RIM, I too wish LL would make it available on their Forms/Publications Page but for some reason they still don't.

    That said, I see no reason why it can't be used as part of a Protest Committee Hearing, after all it "is" a LL Publication/Document.

  • CranberryBlue Pro 94 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Jul 19, 2012 9:12 AM (in response to Lou_B)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    Thanks Lou, appreciate it.

     

    The curveball ban will be tough to get rid of, at this point the current UIC is in favor of it.  I suppose I'll have to change his mind first. He seems like a good guy and it just may be a question of education. The 5 run rule for majors I don't understand. That may be my next target once I learn a little more as to why it came into being. If they're worried about blowouts I'd be more interested in having them use the 10 run rule. In the 2 years I've been here I've never even seen a game that the 10 run rule would have ended a game if it was in effect.

     

    As you all know I'm no great fan of LL but since I'm now in a LL town I believe that LL rules s/b followed. it makes life a whole lot easier.

     

    And why does my real name show up & not my screen name?

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Jul 19, 2012 11:36 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    I don't view the RIM as a rule guide, but more like an exstrapolation of the book. It's just meant for teaching umpire classes, not define rules. Again, it is what it is ( to paraphase Popeye ).

     

    If a local bans the curveball, they first have to define it. I'd really love to see some verbage about that. That would be hilarious.

     

    "The ball shall not rotate more the 36 time before reaching the batter.................."  Honestly, doesn't anyone think before the make this $#!+ up? You can't enforce what you can't define.

     

    The five run rule for the Majors would need a waiver, as it's not a currnent option. That should be easy to dump.

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Jul 23, 2012 6:53 AM (in response to CranberryBlue)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    CB: If you decide to go after the curve ball ban, maybe you can use the LL Pitching Study as ammunition.

    By the way, who (how) do they decide if it's a curve ball or not (I imagine it's Umpire Judgement) and what is the penalty if one is thrown?

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Jul 23, 2012 7:21 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    The Little league Inc. "RIM." ?????

    Morning Frank.

     

    I do see value and relevance of the RIM at the local level. Plus, it's pretty widely available, with a few taps of the keyboard. It's out there. I've been using it as a teaching aide for a few years.

     

    I guess the question is, should it be distributed, on a world wide basis, for everyone to use? Tough call. It''s a teaching tool, not an authoritative document for rule interpretations. I think that's the trouble with pointing to it for guidance. It wasn't designed to be used as such.

     

    Kyle

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