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1559 Views 9 Replies Latest reply: Jul 18, 2012 10:43 AM by Manny_A
T__47 Amateur 24 posts since
Jun 30, 2002
Currently Being Moderated

Jul 15, 2012 11:18 AM

batter's box

When can a batter step completely out of the batter's box and not violate being completely in the box?

The batter starts out legal but then the following happens:

 

Examples:

1) During the windup or stretch the batter edges closer to home plate with part of his foot out of the box

 

2) During the windup or stretch the batter steps on the plate but does not contact ball and jumps back on release (obvious attempt to distract pitcher)

 

3) During the windup or stretch the batter squares to bunt with foot completely out of the box but no bunt attempt, we could even add that the foot is completely on the plate.

 

Would any or all of these be legal even though they are intended to distract the pitcher with no intent of contacting the ball?

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Jul 15, 2012 11:44 AM (in response to T__47)
    batter's box

    T:

     

    Let's starty with the basics.  The umpire should not allow the pitch to start if the batter does not have both feet completely inside the batters box.  (The lines count as being compliant.)

     

    In your example #1, it's nothing.  But if he hits the ball, the umpire must judge as to whether the foot was COMPLETELY OUT OF THE BOX ON THE GROUND!  If contact is made, fair or foul, if any part of the foot is still in the box (including the lines), it is all legal!

     

    In your example #2, I suggest that the correct answer depends on what level you are playing.  For ball players who shave, I would just ignore it, but I would be ready to handle the next pitch which could be a "purpose pitch".  [Rawlings McMuffin?]  For ball players who do not shave, I would NOT rule a balk (or illegal pitch in LL) if I felt that the batter intended to confuse or distract the pitcher.  (Probably a no-call.)  And if the pitch comes in normally, my strike zone might enlarge a teeny bit.   

     

    In example #3, as long as contact is not made on the pitch, it's nothing. 

     

    You have to be careful how you judge "intent to distract".  There are some accepted cases--and it really does depend on the guidance you get for the level you ump.

     

    For instance, if the batter comes way across to the plate in a bunt stance, a smart pitcher would deliver some heat down Main Street and hope that the batter gets hit!  It will be a strike, and he will stay there!  And he will think twice about being a geek!

     

    Hope that helps.

     

    Mike CVUA

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Jul 16, 2012 5:58 AM (in response to T__47)
    batter's box

    6.02(a) says, "The batter shall take his/her position in the batter's box..."

     

    6.03 says, "The batter's legal position shall be with both feet within the batter's box."

     

    6.02(b) says, "The batter shall not leave that position in the batter's box after the pitcher comes to the Set position, or starts a windup."

     

    So, once the pitcher has come Set, or he/she starts his/her windup, I won't allow the batter to intentionally step out of the box.  If he/she does away from the plate, I'll allow the pitch to come in and rule it a Ball or Strike as the Penalty says in 6.02(b).  But if he/she steps towards home plate intentionally, I'll call "NO PITCH!" and then warn the batter to stay in the box.

     

    Again, I have to judge that the batter is leaving his batting position intentionally.  In your 1 and 2, it should be pretty easy to judge the batter's intent.  In 3, I won't do anything since some batters do square improperly to bunt with no intent at shenanigans.

     

    That said, the batter is allowed to distract the pitcher as long as he/she does so legally.  By "legally", I mean the batter isn't doing something that is clearly against the rules.  Bat waving, for example, is not prohibited by rule, so I wouldn't make a big deal out of that.  But leaving the batter's box is a violation of 6.02(b).  And if he/she does so towards the plate, not only is it a rule violation, but it is also a dangerous act that I feel needs to be stopped.

     

    But that's just me.

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    3. Jul 17, 2012 7:29 AM (in response to Manny_A)
    batter's box

    Just a "teaser" question----because I had the experience of an umpire, and both managers, same game, not knowing the correct answer.

     

    Manny mentioned an occasion where he would call a thrown pitch--a "no pitch."  {Not disputing his reason for doing so!}

    I know Manny knows the answer...as he cited the rule number on another thread...altho not citing the rule verbiage at that time.

     

    In Little league, would that pitch be counted/charged to the pitcher?

     

    Frank!

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Jul 18, 2012 6:23 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    batter's box

    Okay, anyone to the question!?!?

     

    BTW---those bold enlarged letters in my OP, were not intended.

    I don't  what I "hit" that caused that to happen...and reverted, without me doing anything, to normal in the sentences following.

     

    Hopefully no offense taken by readers here.

     

    Frank! 

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Jul 18, 2012 6:51 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    batter's box

    I will bite without grabbing the rule book and take the risk of being wrong. 

     

    When a player becomes set, say from stretch, and takes an overly long time to deliver, I allow the batter to step out as a stress relief. IF the pitcher finishes I call time, and declare No Pitch.(Mostly while it is on it's way. That pitch IMHO does not go against pitch count as I ruled it No Pitch by me.





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Jul 18, 2012 7:57 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    batter's box

    Make the player request time, don't just grant it on your own.

     

    If the batter steps out without asking for time and the pitch is delivered you just call it as you see it.   6.02(b )

     

    If the batter steps out and the pitcher stops it's a do-over. 

  • Frank_B Legend 1,324 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Jul 18, 2012 8:20 AM (in response to NELL_blue)
    batter's box

    Good effort NELL....i.e.....your IMHO bears fruit.  A declared pitch deemed a "no-pitch" for whatever reason by the umpire, is not counted in a pitcher's total pitches, in Little League, albeit thrown.

     

    Also, if you did grab the LL rulebook looking for the correct answer it would of been an excerise in futility; altho  not counting the no-pitch is a LL Rule---but appears only in the 10.00 series----Rule 10.22, added as an addendum in 2007.

    The subject LL publication/series is entitled.."What's The Score."

    10.22 also contains other excerpts of interest---in regard to "pitch-counts."

     

    Manny mentioned Rule 10.22 in one of his past posts; absent any detail which wasn't needed at that time.

     

    Not counting a thrown no-pitch brought forth some discussion locally-----led by me.

    Point was, the pitching arm/shoulder (physically) knows no difference as between a pitch thrown and counted; and one thrown with the same wear and tear on a kid's arm/shoulder---and not counted. 

     

    Frank!

  • NELL_blue Legend 303 posts since
    May 21, 2010
    Currently Being Moderated
    8. Jul 18, 2012 8:31 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    batter's box

    Ahhh, my rule book is in the downstairs "library"!  But I appreciate you detailing it for me.

    As for calling time when the batter steps out, sometime they do it as stepping back, right? Assuming you are going to grant it. If the pitcher has a inordinary delay between set position, which I can guage from his past pitches, I usually will grant, and I have seen a pitch or 2 on the way as I do. 

     

    Have you ever had a pitcher throw right to the catcher before you are set?(Maybe with mask not on?)  I have, it's like they don't see you back there standing with hands up. 





    Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it!

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Jul 18, 2012 10:43 AM (in response to Frank_B)
    batter's box

    Frank_B wrote:

     

    Not counting a thrown no-pitch brought forth some discussion locally-----led by me.



    This brings up something that kinda sorta bit me in the butt during tournament play last week.  I was PU for the 9-10 winner's bracket final in our district, and one team had a pitcher who wasted no time between pitches.  There were a couple of occasions where I had to tell him to wait until I put the ball in play before he started his delivery.

     

    In one case, he went ahead and delivered the pitch anyway, and I called "No Pitch".  What I failed to do was turn back to the official pitch counter and verify with him, "You didn't count that pitch, did you?"  I had (wrongly) assumed that he knew that. 

     

    It was only between innings when there was a 3-pitch dispute between the official counter and the team's scorebook that I asked him if he counted pitches that were thrown when I said, "No Pitch."  He said he did because the the pitcher did add wear and tear to his arm.  Ummm, no, sorry.

     

    So you may want to have a pre-game with your official scorer to make sure he/she knows better.

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