Aug 17, 2012 5:42 PM
An Oldie(over 75,000 miles run) willing to help Newbies
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Hi, as a long ago member of CoolRunning I drifted away when CR seemd to"die" about 5 yrs ago. Just discovered the site still exists. A quick bio: Soon to be 69, quit smoking back in late 1975, started logging my runs in April, 1976. Currently at 75,718 miles. Have run in over 450 races from 1 mile to ultra marathons over the years and have coached a lot of neighborhood class runners. My motto has always been "start of easy, then back off". I am willing to offer some insights into having Newbies become lifetime runners. By making running fun, making it play instead of trying to do too much, too fast, too soon you can become lifetime runners. My coaching goal would be to keep you from joining the world's largest running club: I Use to Run, But.......Club.
A couple tidbits: Slow down, you will get faster. It is OK to walk. A guy name Tom Osler had the run/walk concept decades before Jeff Galloway. Water is a great hydrator, it has worked for thousands of years.
Hope to get some questions. My newest goal is to complete a February, 2113 marathon, which will give me having run a marathon or ultra in the last 5 decades (70's,80's,90's,2000's and 2013).I will admit it took me to 2008 to qualify for Boston (3:57) at age 64 1/2.
I have been very fortunate. Rarely been injured and honestly appreciate and love running more with each mile. Thanks for letting me exercise my ego. Again, I am willing to help make lifetime runners out of you Newbies. Nick
Thanks for the offer, Nick
One of the questions I mull over is how optimal training may be different for older runners. I recognize that we may be more prone to injury (I say "may" because we may be a little less reckless, a little less driven than younger runners.)
I am 61 years old, female, and started running a little over four years ago. Currently I run five days a week; five miles Sat/Mon/Tues/Thurs, and a long run of 9.6 to 11.1 miles on Sunday. Occasionally I miss a day or run an extra day, or tack on another mile and a half, but that's the basics. In the winter, when it gets too icy to run safely on the roads I get a gym membership and work on the elliptical, but mostly I run through the winter. I have done core exercises daily for decades, not long or intensely, but consistently. My prs (both this year) are 25:37 for 5K and 2:11:26 for 13.1 miles.
The recommendations for runners in general would be to do track/interval work, and increase weekly mileage, in order to run faster/farther, but I also think that doing that would increase my risk of injury and/or burnout. I'd like to think that there would also be improvement, if slow, but just maintaining this schedule and increasing strength. I also know that in the near future increases in fitness will be balanced by age-related decrease in performance.
I would appreciate your thoughts and comments.
Robin from Maine
Welcome back Nick & thanks for the offer! I'm like Robin, one of my biggest questions/concerns is optimal training for older runners. I'm 61 years old and started running in October of '09. I've had my share of injuries: stress fracture to hip, retrocalcneal bursitis, plantar fasciitus. I've got high stiff arches and supinate. AND I LOVE to RUN!!!
My injuries tend to come after doing the old "too much, too soon, too fast".
I'm currently training for my first marathon, actually planning to do the Goofy Challenge (half marathon on Saturday, and the full on Sunday) at Disney World in January. I'm using the Galloway plan for "experienced" runners to hopefully get me there and across both finish lines. I'd love to be like Robin and run 5 days a week but am afraid to do more than 3 or 4, at the risk of injury.
I'm not fast, but want to improve speed, but running long and running healthy are more important. Currently I do one run per week that total 4-5 miles with 4-6 hill repeats, one 4-5 miler that focuses on speed with either cadence or what Galloway calls acceleration drills , the third run of the week is a long slow distance run. When I can, I like to do just an enjoyable easy run that is 3-5 miles for my 4th day.
I too would appreciate your thoughts, comments and suggestions.
Marie
Marie from Tennessee
Training for Disney 2013 Goofy Challenge.....Yes, I'm certifiably CRAZY!
61 year olds must be out of their minds to run a half marathon followed by a full the next day!
Disney Half Marathon 1/7/2012 2:37:59
Bear Hunt 5K 9/24/11 28:28 pb
Trojan Trek Trail 5K 8/6/11 31:45
Expo 10K 5/28/11 1:01:28,
Expo 10K 5/26/12 1:05:39
Eastman 10K 9/8/2012 1:01:11 pb
"Let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us." Hebrews 12:1
Hi Robin, if you are in for running the rest of your life, please relax. This may sound trite,but if you can stay consistent and do the vast of amount of your running at 65-70% of your max heart rate, you can improve. I tell folks it gets easier as you get older. Aging can present some interesting challenges. For me, slow but sure most of the time has resulted in me still running. Even as a newbie I began to figure out if I slowed down it was more fun. I know the formula worked for me.
I have observed a lot of runners can improve their race times over a period of 10 years from almost whatever age they were when they started. Being consistent, varying mileage and intensity(with no more than 5-10% of weekly mileage venturing into 85-95% max hr). If you want to be running 10 years from now relax, slow down, walk some, smile a lot, don't take your running or yourself too seriously and smile when you run(don't worry about bug stains on your teeth, they rarely stain).
I find that my recovery time after a long effort has increased and if I sit for a couple hours I usually am the last one out of a movie theater. Hope this helps. Nick
Way Marie, wasn't that a song? YIKES, a 1/2 marathon followed by a full marathon after only a couple of years of running. I will verify you are nuts!!
I strongly recommend you reconsider your plan. Why not focus on bettering your time for the 1/2 marathon? Based on your injury hx you are a prime candidate to join the world's largest running club. I also truly love to run, as as I mentioned my goal is to run the rest of my life. I hope that is the goal you have on your frige. If you were 21, I would recommend not putting your body through a 1/2 followed by a full marathon. Tell you what, go out and try just walking 13 miles, then get up the next day and walk 26. Let me know how that works for you. Actually that would be a neat way to train for the Goofy Challenge.
How about this for a goal, aside from running for the rest of your life, train over the next few years to run a sub 4 hour marathon?
I can tell you the reason you don't see many runners compiling over 75,000 miles of consistent running over periods like 36 years is they normally end up running too much, too soon, too fast. Please reconsider the Goofy goal and work on getting your 10k time down to the low 50's and running injury free and having it be joyful. Actually if you can just go run/walk because you love the feeling you may reach 75,000 miles yourself. Nick
I am a true newbie. I did a 5k in July ( with very little training) and fell in love with the idea. So, I started the c25k and am running/ walking 3 times a week. I usually end up doing like 2 miles when I'm out. So i have a few questions...
OK, let me get this straight. You ran a 5K after just running a little, then decided to do the c25k. You are experiencing some hamstring issues and a sore knee?
I guess I have been gone too long to recall what c25 k is/ means.
My suggestion: Stop running, for awhile. Say what? Relax, instead of running just walk, not hard race walking, just gentle walking. Do this 4-5x per week. Gradually build up the time walking(don't measure time and distance, focus just on the amount of time you are walking, remember, a gentle pace.) Do this for at least one month and let your body get used to being on the move for an hour or a little longer. You are probably thinking, hey I can already do that. Trust me, there is a method to my madness. By getting out and walking gently for periods varying between 15-20 minutes and building to an hour or more a couple things may start happening. Your hamstring will start to heal, and your knee will appreciate a break from the pounding of running. Again, to become a long distance runner, or a runner who wants to run for decades, PATIENCE is a virtue. I already sound like a broken record, please heed my advice. I know, I know, "smart people don't need advice, and dumb people don't heed advice", if you promise to do this I will promise to get you back running, hopefully, injury free running, life long running.
If you want to be a flash in the pan, continue to do what you have been doing and more than likely, sooner vs later you will join the I use to run but...club.
Oh, stride analysis. Wait on that, OK? Nick
Ok, c25k is a training program called couch to 5k. It alternates jogging and walking through the course of 9 weeks to help you get from being a couch potato to a 5k
It makes it very simple to follow and slowly increases the amount of time you run.
I'll be honest...I don't want to stop running because it will feel like I'm taking a step backwards, but I REALLY don't want to screw up my knee! Looks like I will start walking for a bit! Thanks!
Nick-good to actually be able to communicate with you. I've been trying to read through the old Basebuilding, low heart rate training via Maffetone et al thread and have seen you on there many times. I appreciate any wisdom and suggestions as I'm just getting started with the low heart rate training over the last 2-3 weeks or so, and heart rate monitor working only last 10 days or so.
Anyway, I'm 58 nearing 59, so I've used 122 as the top HR for my runs, trying to stay 112-122 >98% of the time. I've been running for 18 months, so I did not add +5 to the equation as I felt it would be best to be on the low side. I had a mild case of Achilles tendonitis about 10 months or more ago and have been fortunate to be injury free since then.
Some of the races I've done appear below; I ran a similar # in 2011 and have made slow progress in improving my times. (first 5K was about 36 min) I want to run longer distances and had been doing my longer runs at a much slower pace than my other runs since early July, but did not have HR monitor and had not read the Maffetone thread or his web site at that time. My longest run is 18 miles, run on 8/11, with average pace of about 14:09. usually run 1 minute and walk 1 minute, but by the last 6 miles it was more like 30sec of each to keep HR down.
I plan on using the low heart rate training exclusively for at least the next 6 months except for a few races planned for the fall. And those are races in name only; I plan to use them as organized training runs to see where I'm at. On 9/15 there is a local HM that I will run at or near my current training pace, perhaps picking it up a little on the heart rate the last 3 miles if I'm feeling OK. My primary goal is to finish (nor race or run) a local FM on 10/21. (My wife and I have had a large number of losses in our family in the last year, and I want to do the marathon in honor of our loved ones). So the goal is to finish, nothing more.
After that it will be back to just LHR training, tentatively planning only 4-6 races in 2013, from 5K to marathon.
Any thoughts, suggestions, critiques would be welcome. Thanks for taking your time to share your wisdom.
Dan-started running 1/29/2011 at age 57
notable 2012 runs:
Crazylegs Classic-Madison-8K--4/28/2012--00:52:14
Roxbury Rural Run--5K--5/5/2012-- 29:32-PR
Haslanger Classic--10K--8/4/2012--1:06:19 PR
WO-ZHA-WA Run--HM--9/15/2012--2:37:45
Honky Tonk Marathon- Wisconsin Dells- 10/21/2012-5:39:09
2013 runs:
Fleet Feet New Year's Day Dash-8K-1/1/2013--54:23
Door County HM- 5/4/2013
Fox Cities HM- 9/22/2013 (60thBD!)
Ok Dan, hr stuff first. Have you determined YOUR max hr? Not by formula but by actually running hard up a hill and maybe a repeat up the hill after warming up. WARNING, don't do this w/o getting an ok from your doctor. Maybe he can do a stress test and run you to almost exhaustion. I have found the hr formulas to be off. Mine by formula would be about 40 beats less than what I have measured over the yrs.
That aside, and that is a big aside, because if your max is a lot higher you may be running a little too slow. WOW, did I just write that? The good news is by running slow-base building, you will get faster with the same effort. It takes time and PATIENCE. Running injury free means you are doing something right. Work on listening and getting to know your body. If the pace feels too quick, regardless of hr, slow down. Not every run will be superpower. If they were, we would probably get tired of running. I rate my runs from 1-5. I have had a few 4.9's--never a 5, and all in between. The more experience you gain running the easier it will become to recognize doing too much, or even maybe too little.
Make your running fun, play. Run/walk is great. Vary distance and pace. Relax, hydrate, smile a lot and please don't take your running, or yourself too seriously. You sound like you are in for the long run, so to speak, enjoy being able to move. Hopefully this helps. Big thing, get fiigured out what your real max hr is then we will have a baseline to work from. Mick
I didn't change my name, it is Nick not Mick. (:
Remember, 1 step back, in time 3 forward. Patience please, it will work for you. If you are serious about being a lifetime runner and want to gradually improve think long term, not a race 2-3 months from now. Get healthy, take a look at a plan for next year. Be grateful you can walk and are healthy enough to get out and do it.
Oh, you never mentioned age, weight, prior athletic experience. These are factors that would give me a better picture. Thanks. Nick
I'm a 27 year old female. I weigh about 165 lbs (I'm 5'7" so I'm over weight). In my teens I played basketball and cheered. I was diagnosed with osgood schlatters disease and started to become less active. As an adult, I haven't been consistently active until recently.
I was worried that maybe my knee hurts because of the osgood schlatters, but that had to do with my bones growing...Once I stopped growing, the pain stopped to so I don't think that has anything to do with it![]()
Nick- I had a stress test in April (normal) with MHR of 164. Tuesday I ran my slow 4 miles, and near the end I charged hard up a steep hill. when I had to stop MHR was 162. Today I ran slow for just over 3, then began speeding up about 600 yards before the hill so my HR was already over 150 by the time I started up the hill. I got MHR to 171 with that.
My resting heart rate is not very low, probably in part to some medication I take daily that can raise the heart rate. My doctor agreed to reduce the dose, but I'm not able to go off it completely. I hope that helps. Thanks again.
Dan
Dan-started running 1/29/2011 at age 57
notable 2012 runs:
Crazylegs Classic-Madison-8K--4/28/2012--00:52:14
Roxbury Rural Run--5K--5/5/2012-- 29:32-PR
Haslanger Classic--10K--8/4/2012--1:06:19 PR
WO-ZHA-WA Run--HM--9/15/2012--2:37:45
Honky Tonk Marathon- Wisconsin Dells- 10/21/2012-5:39:09
2013 runs:
Fleet Feet New Year's Day Dash-8K-1/1/2013--54:23
Door County HM- 5/4/2013
Fox Cities HM- 9/22/2013 (60thBD!)
Hi Dan,
I am glad you know YOUR max hr. To me, that is the number to work from. Running between 65 and70% of your max should benefit you. We can sometimes make running more complicated than it really is. With experience, you feel and know you are not overdoing it. Just relax, have fun as you run and you will improve. If you are giving some thought to being a lifetime runner it will ease the pressure to accomplish distances like the marathon in a few months. If you can wrap your mind around a concept like running marathons when you are 65 and 70+, then there is no need to hurry. The folks who are consistent with their running over the decades and don't attempt to do too much, too soon, too fast is the best proof that strategy like that works. The sad thing is there are not a whole lot of runners who have been running for 3/4/5+decades. Gee, I sound like a broken record. Nick
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