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3424 Views 13 Replies Latest reply: Dec 6, 2012 10:28 AM by Manny_A
Brad__453 Amateur 16 posts since
May 30, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Oct 15, 2012 11:38 AM

Fly ball - appeal?

Sitch - R2, 1 out.  Fly ball towards 2B.  F6, in the act of catching the ball, inadvertantly steps on 2B as they catch the ball.  R2 was somewhat oblivious, as was F6.  I'm yelling for F6 to tag 2B, and R2 realizes they should be on the bag.  F6  lunges back to tag the bag, just after R2 slides back in.

 

I discussed this with BU later, but I'd like your comments before we go into what he had to say.

  • Mike_CVUA Legend 593 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    1. Oct 15, 2012 2:00 PM (in response to Brad__453)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    Brad:

     

    This is an "appeal" play, albeit a continuous action one.  As the umpire, was it unmistakably an appeal, or was it just pure coincidence?

     

    (100% judgement)

     

    Mike CVUA

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Oct 15, 2012 4:08 PM (in response to Brad__453)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    Since you thought the stepping on 2b was "inadvertant" I would think the umpire might think likewise, so, it seems like it was NOT an umistakable appeal - play on!

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Oct 16, 2012 7:44 AM (in response to Brad__453)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    So discuss the lack of training with your league UIC if it's a league volunteer or take to concern to the umpire's association if he's a hired gun.

     

    If it's a new person just starting out don't expect him to have as much knowledge and skill as an experienced umpire.

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Oct 16, 2012 8:53 PM (in response to Brad__453)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    Another goof - he can't eject spectators.

     

    Consider joining the umpire crew at your park. Be part of the solution.

  • Kyle_ Legend 556 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    7. Oct 17, 2012 10:14 AM (in response to Brad__453)
    Re: Fly ball - appeal?

    So, in your opinion, the BU didn't properly apply a rule?

     

    I'm guessing that you didn't protest his rule misapplication either, right?

     

    When an umpire goofs on the ruling, it's the managers obligation to protest it. This puts in motion a chain of events designed to get the call right. The first is a required meeting of all the umpires on the field. They get together to discuss the ruling, and make a decision. If the umpires don't agree, the Umpire in Chief for the game has the final say.

     

    What happens after that is different for different rule sets. I'll guess this is Little League, so let me walk you through that square dance.

     

    If the manager doesn't agree with the rule interpretation of the crew, a formal protest is lodged, and recorded in the rule book. The manager then submits in a protest report, and a Protest Committee decideds the outcome. It can range from a denial, to a replay of the game from the point of the ruling, or even a forfeit.

     

    But, what's needed is that manager to do his part, know his job and duty to his team, and make that protest before the next pitch.

     

    So, how did the protest go, Brad?

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Oct 25, 2012 1:54 PM (in response to Brad__453)
    Re: Fly ball - appeal?

    There's a rule misapplication. There is certainly something to protest.

     

    Or is getting the undeserved out more important that getting the umpire trained? 

     

    If so, why are you complaining anout the umpire not knowing the rule? 

     

    Or do you want the undeserved out this time but want the umpire trained for next time when you might be the victim instead of the benefactor?

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    10. Nov 28, 2012 11:51 AM (in response to Rich_Ives)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    Rich_Ives wrote:

     

    There's a rule misapplication. There is certainly something to protest.

     

    Or is getting the undeserved out more important that getting the umpire trained? 

     

     


    I don't know of any coaches I've seen in my years of being involved in baseball and softball who would formally protest a call that went in his/her favor, Rich.  Would you?

     

    I agree that Brad should go to the powers-that-be to ensure this umpire gets the appropriate training.  But lodging a protest during the game that would benefit the opposing team??  The next time I see that happen will be the first.

  • Rich_Ives Legend 1,283 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Dec 4, 2012 7:33 AM (in response to Manny_A)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    I didn't say he should protest.

     

    He said there was nothing that could be protested.  There certainly was.

  • Lou_B Community Moderator 1,319 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Dec 6, 2012 5:58 AM (in response to Manny_A)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    A number of years ago while the PU for a game I had the manger of the team at-bat ask for time.

    I granted time and he walked up to me and asked me to call over the opposing manager "for a conference" - which I did.

    He then told us that his last batter (who was now standing on 1st base after hitting a single) had batted out of turn.

    The opposing manager then "protested" the BOOT and I invoked the proper penalty.

    The manager said he wanted to teach his players that they need to play by the rules and that there are consequences when violating the rules.

     

    I guess it was sort of like calling a penalty on yourself in golf when no one else saw the violation but YOU know you violated the rules!

  • Manny_A Legend 841 posts since
    May 25, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Dec 6, 2012 10:28 AM (in response to Lou_B)
    Fly ball - appeal?

    Lou_B wrote:

     

    The manager said he wanted to teach his players that they need to play by the rules and that there are consequences when violating the rules.



    Admirable, I suppose.  This coach is clearly the rarest of exceptions; the vast majority of coaches I've seen would keep mum.

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