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56200 Views 97 Replies Latest reply: Nov 29, 2013 6:17 PM by Mikey A Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 ... 7 Previous Next
  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,414 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    30. Aug 21, 2013 6:46 PM (in response to SheilaKappel)
    Tired heavy legs

    SheilaKappel - it really depends on your maximum heart rate (running).  Mine is about 195 and my resting heart rate is 50.  So 170 would be about 83%, which is moderately hard but not anaerobic.  But I've talked to runners whose maximum is around 220.  You can get your maximum tested at a "human performance" lab or there are ways to approximate in yourself (if you are already a runner).  The other thing is that over time, as you do more running, your heart rate will be lower at the same pace.





    Len

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,414 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    32. Aug 21, 2013 8:02 PM (in response to Mikey A)
    Tired heavy legs

    For the average runner, it's probably not worth the effort.  Running by perceived exertion level seems to work just as well for most of us.  It is possible to get useful information by monitoring your heart rate while running.  Some runners swear by it but it seems to be more pertinent for the "high performance" runner.  You need a good heart rate monitor, and you need to know your true maximum heart rate (the formulas are not very accurate) to calculate your heart rate "zones".  I've done it from time to time but the results, to my mind, were mixed, and I had problems with the accuracy of the monitors.  Below are a couple articles on basic use of a heart rate monitor.

    http://www.marathonguide.com/training/articles/HeartMonitorTraining.cfm

    http://www.runnersworld.com/running-tips/how-use-heart-rate-monitor

     

    There is also something called the "Maffetone Method", which makes extensive use of heart rate training, and is supposed to be particularly useful in aerobic base building.  You can google "maffetone" or "maffetone method" if you're interested.





    Len

  • SheilaKappel Rookie 2 posts since
    Oct 30, 2012
    Currently Being Moderated
    33. Aug 21, 2013 9:19 PM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Re: Tired heavy legs

    lenzlaw - Thanks for the reply. Glad to know that there is hope for me! I've had so many people tell me that they have a hard time getting their heart rate even up to 110-120 after 30 minutes of strenous exercise/running, that I wasn't sure if a high rate was common or I'm just  far more out of shape than I thought!

     

    MikeyA - I've enjoyed reading your posts and your accomplishments on running. That is so great what you've done! You've inspired me to try it again on a gradual program, and I think I'll work toward a 5K as well. I've done several 5K's (and one 10K) but I always walk them (15 min/mi). Hope your knee problem heals quickly!

     

    Thanks again for all the great advice!  Wanted to ask; does your heart rate get to your maximum really quickly? (ie; mine is literally within two minutes if I run or hiking uphill)

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,414 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    34. Aug 22, 2013 7:19 AM (in response to SheilaKappel)
    Re: Tired heavy legs

    That's something I should have mentioned.  Running tends to make for higher heart rates than most other aerobic activities (has to do with numbers and types of muscles being used, and how they're being used).  For instance, running at a moderate pace in cool weather I might hit 150.  Cycling in the same way I might only hit 125.  I've never met anyone who can do "strenuous" running and stay around 120. 

     

    Also, uphill puts substantially more stress on the heart than level ground.  So yes, uphill your heart rate will elevate more quickly.  I would not assume that 170 or 180 is your maximum.  It's just where you get under the circumstances.  My heart rate elevates somewhat, right away, when I start running, but may take a mile or so to get to its "normal running range".  But I've been running for almost 30 years.

     

    BTW, quick recovery to normal heart rate after exercise is a good sign.





    Len

  • shipo Legend 499 posts since
    Aug 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    36. Aug 24, 2013 8:31 PM (in response to Mikey A)
    Tired heavy legs

    Hey Mike,

     

    A few random thoughts in no particular order:

    • I've been running (off and on) recreationally and/or competitively for nearly 40 years now and I've had numerous soft tissue (cartilage, tendons, and ligaments) injuries; knees, ankles, hips, shins, back, pretty much anything you can name.
    • Depending on the severity of the issue, my recovery required anything from a day or two to a complete layoff of running for several months (the worst was a broken leg and partially torn off foot which took six years before I was able to start running again).
    • Looking back on my injuries, the common thread for how long the recovery took seems to be contingent on how good my base was at the time of the injury.  If I had just restarted running, got hurt, and then tried to run through the pain, it almost always got worse; ultimately requiring a longer recovery period.  However, if I had at least a few hundred long-slow-distance (LSD) under my belt at the time, I usually got away with no more than a week of recovery.
    • My most recent injury happened in late June; literally 99% of my (off again and on again) miles for the previous 4 years had been on a soft and very flat dirt trail, however, on this one particular Friday I had a time crunch, and the only way to get my work done, get my run in, and get a very critical errand run, was to literally run to my errand over the very hilly roads in our area.  Wouldn't you know it; the next morning I got out of bed and my left knee hurt so bad I could barely make it down stairs; fortunately I had logged just over 200 miles since getting my butt back off the couch, and after three days of rest, I started running again (keeping my speed very slow) on my favorite dirt trail; good news, since the first of July I've logged exactly 420 miles.  The knee isn't what I would call 100% yet, but it is good enough that if I warm up real well and take the early part of every run very slow, I'm good to go.
    • I heard a report on NPR this last spring which discussed at length a study which indicated that the use of NSAIDs, while effective at reducing immediate inflamation and pain, could actually retard the recovery process.  To be quite honest, I'd never heard that before and I have no idea how true it is, but on the chance it's true, I've pretty much eliminated all NSAIDs from my life, and so far at least, I haven't missed them, in spite of my creaky old 56 year old bones and joints.
    • Here's a link which kind of sums up what I heard last spring (although not from the same source information): http://boiserunwalk.com/prevent-treat-injuries/33-nsaids-slow-recovery.html




    Fat old man PRs:

    • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
    • 2-mile: 13:49
    • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
    • 5-Mile: 37:24
    • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
    • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
    • Half Marathon: 1:42:13
  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,414 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    37. Aug 25, 2013 6:28 AM (in response to shipo)
    Tired heavy legs

    Once again my two cents.  Some interesting info from shipo.  His point about NSAIDs is well taken.  What he said has been borne out in studies and the same is true of icing.  I haven't been able to find the link, but basically they're saying that reducing inflammation in the injured area is not necessarily a good thing.  Icing can be done for the first 24 hours or so to reduce swelling, but after that we should be more willing to let nature take its course.  Try googling "icing inhibits recovery" if you want to read more.

     

    I wish your doctor had been more specific than "soft tissue injury".  That covers a lot of ground.  One thing you should check if you haven't is your gait.  Let me quote from a Runners World article. "The most common injury-causing stride flaw is overstriding, or landing heel first with your foot well ahead of your body's center of gravity, instead of landing flat-footed with your foot directly underneath your head. A simple way to correct his flaw is to tilt your entire body very slightly forward from the ankles (not the waist) as you run, as though you're constantly falling forward or running downhill."  Also make sure your knee is flexed.  A straight knee tends to transmit a heavy load directly through the joint.  I find that if I get tired and lazy during my runs, and start landing with a straight(er) knee, it will start to ache.  Making sure to keep it flexed relieves the pain.





    Len

  • justamaniac Legend 204 posts since
    May 30, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    38. Aug 25, 2013 9:27 AM (in response to Mikey A)
    Tired heavy legs

    Mike - I want to ditto shipo and Len; I'm also in my mid 50's, I ice tender areas immediately after my run, and no NSAIDs.  If necessary I will wrap an ankle for support when not running (I have ankle/achilles issues) for short periods, and sometimes apply warm compresses to encourage blood flow.  These little things have been working for me.

    best of luck!

     

    -bill

    http://runningthrutime.blogspot.com

  • SeeFluffyRun Legend 251 posts since
    Sep 2, 2009
    Currently Being Moderated
    40. Aug 26, 2013 9:33 AM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Tired heavy legs

    Yes that is what we learned at a running clinic sponsored by New Balance.  They had us march in place in order to get us use to landing flat flooted. After a few minutes, she had us lean just a bit forward while we marched. For those of us that were evaluated as being heel strikers, she suggested we march in place and lean forward before our runs so that our body will get use to it.





    Graduated C25K 08/09/2009

    Restarted 04/01/2013


    Follow me on my journey: SEEFLUFFYRUN

    Twitter: @SeeFluffyRun

    Facebook: SeeFluffyRun

    Blog: seefluffyrun.blogspot.com

  • lenzlaw Community Moderator 10,414 posts since
    Jan 18, 2008
    Currently Being Moderated
    41. Aug 26, 2013 10:55 AM (in response to SeeFluffyRun)
    Tired heavy legs

    Understand, it is quite possible to heel strike even while planting your feet under your body as described.  And there is nothing wrong with that.  The point is to avoid overstriding and the aggressive heel strike that comes with it.





    Len

  • shipo Legend 499 posts since
    Aug 9, 2013
    Currently Being Moderated
    42. Aug 26, 2013 11:45 AM (in response to lenzlaw)
    Re: Tired heavy legs

    Those of us spending our running lives on technical dirt trails need to slightly heel strike just to maintain a safe, almost defensive, stride when working through rocks, root snakes, heavily contoured rock ledges, and of course whenever running in long grass where you have no idea what new adventure awaits your next footfall.  Even with my heel first attitude, I virtually never land with an extended leg/locked knee, and even on the rare occasion when I run on pavement (like this coming Saturday when I run a 10-mile road race), my heel first bias remains. 





    Fat old man PRs:

    • 1-mile (point to point, gravity assist): 5:50
    • 2-mile: 13:49
    • 5K (gravity assist last mile): 21:31
    • 5-Mile: 37:24
    • 10K (first 10K of my Half Marathon): 48:16
    • 10-Mile (first 10 miles of my Half Marathon): 1:17:40
    • Half Marathon: 1:42:13
  • mo3034 Rookie 2 posts since
    Jul 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    43. Aug 28, 2013 10:53 AM (in response to Mikey A)
    Tired heavy legs

    My first post here.  Have you been fitted for the right shoe?  If you are in the wrong shoe you will most likely continue to have problems even after addressing what's already been suggested.  Many beginner runners don't know they're in the wrong shoe until they're in your exact situation. Quite a few in our running club have had "issues" resolved just by trying the shoe recommended after a fitting.  For the price of new shoes, it might be worth getting a proper fit at your local running store to see if that helps.

     

    After that, strength training, cross training and spending the time to build a real good base before trying sprints or big hills are highest on my list for injury prevention!  Congrats on your progress so far and good luck!!

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