quote:<HR>Originally posted by marunr:
It 's strange to me because guys there size would never keep up with me during a run, so am I really slow or do they just have a lot better technique? Olympic swimmers don't have much fat on their bodies so what gives?<HR>

Probably a combination of technique and the fact that they may have been great HS or College swimmers. Even though they are lapping you, your not seeing them swim the pace they used to swim. A HS/college swimmer may swim 5x5,000yds a week when they were training. Show me a triathlete that swims that much.

Its not fair, but I have routinely see former HS or college swimmers drop by for a masters swim and kick my butt with technique alone when they havnt trained for years.

Technique in swimming and power/strength in cycling can make up for not being as light as possible.

I would like to add that overweight swimmers have more fat than you and therefore float better. Add to this the fact that your weight does not really matter anymore in the water, it's easier for them to be in the correct horizontal position. Put a pull buoy between your knees and you will see how much faster you are, with a floating device.

I'm a "fatty" in triathlon terms...I'm not fast, but my coach told me how to fit through a tiny hole...I got faster.

As Ice Cream said...maybe my extra chunk a chunk makes me more bouyant. It's like a genetic wetsuit!

Sorry to burst the fat-bubble (yuk yuk) but I don't think it's so much the fat making them bouyant as it is technique and body position.

The extra fat maybe does add some lift (kind of doubting it) but then you've got the extra friction from increased surface area. Although I have not a lick of proof, I hypothesize that they cancel.

It's all about form and body position. LOTS in the body position department. Like tithers said "fit through a tiny hole" which means keep your body in a "tube" and you slip right through the hole and go faster.

Your speed is just fine, but if you're already a good runner, all that helps you with is aerboic engine.

story: one of my local buddies is a 3hr marathoner, 16minish 5k, etc. He's a flipping gazalle. We started Tri's same year. My 500yd time was around 9min. His was around 18. We used to ask him if we was going to work part time at a dredging company, because his body position was SO bad. The only reason he kept the pace he did was pure aerobic capacity and a high tolerance for pain. We've worked on him and 2 yrs later, I'm doing 7minish and he's doing 9-10minish. He did a full IM last year under horrendous swim conditions in 1:30. Now, his position isn't too bad at all and he's working on his form. I suspect he will continue to creep up and will probably get to the 8min range this year.

Side note: Being 235lb and having what looks like a beer gut I totally enjoy freaking out fit people when I beat them in the pool

quote:<HR>Originally posted by marunr:
I'm 49 years old, so my current times are about 20:30 for the 5k and 3:20 for the marathon.<HR>

I'd keep up with you. Almost. Those times look more like my PRs (20:03 and 3:19) than typical races (21:00-22:00, 3:30-3:40). I'm 46.

I think I agree with those saying Technique trumps both conditioning and body shape in the pool.



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quote:<HR>Originally posted by actonrunner:
Why do you assume that just because they've got visible fat that they haven't worked out for years?
Having a gut means you've eaten more than you need. It doesn't mean you haven't been working out and that you don't have good aerobic conditioning.
These guys may be in very good swimming shape. Sounds like you're jumping to conclusions based on your running experience.<HR>

Actually I know some swimmers who do one open water swim a year, just about no training in inbetween the swims. They seem to be able to swim at this avg level that far excels the typical triathlete.

In running they call it "running on memory", the guy that runs a marathon with no training because he did 5 of them before. It works much better in swimming because of technique than it does in running. I have seen some horrible "running on memory" marathons my friends have had.

The solution of course is to swim like 5 times a week one winter with a masters club and most of us would see big gains. But if we did that we wouldnt be triathletes

Also; if the swimmers also did a masters, we would be right back to whwre we started

Since I was the first to mention the body fat buoyancy on this topic:
I was a fitness swimmer for 2-3 years, and decided to pick up running. I did not swim for 4 months, just ran, and lost 20 pounds from a combination of dieting and running. When I decided to do some swimming again, I literally felt the absence of fat on my body, it was much harder to do what I used to do. That was when I really realized how much my body had changed, beyond what the scale said. And I am talking 1985, when all those body fat scales and othe gadgets were not around.
It may not be a scientific statement, but I sure know it was true for me.

It is also no accident that thin men have more problems with keeping a horizontal position in the water than thin women do, esp. when they are working on improving their technique. Women typically have more fat in the thighs and upper legs than men do.