active network espn
Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage  Search Cool Running Community
23 Replies Last post: Jul 2, 2007 2:02 PM by doug1430   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view Flyin Hawaiian's profile Legend 398 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
Login to Reply

Jun 27, 2007 9:51 PM

Swim Hip Rotation

Should your hips rotate on every stroke? Also how far? She I be 90 degrees from the bottom of the pool with my stomach facing the wall. It seems to slow my stroke when I rotate that far and that often.

Laurie

------------------
"Today is the tomorrow you worried about yesterday." Annonymous
Click to view Flip082's profile Pro 154 posts since
Apr 4, 2003
1. Jun 28, 2007 8:06 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
Yes, your hips shoud rotate every stroke. But it should feel natural. If it feels like you're rolling too far, you probably are. The best drills for this are side kicking with one arm by your ear (do 8-10x25m, alternate side), and glide drills (kick on side for 6 beats, take a stroke, kick on other side for 6 beats, take a stroke). Your body should just naturally roll as you take your entry and reach.

Hope this helps.
Meagan

------------------
"rapid motion through space elates one"
~~ James Joyce

User Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

My Triathlon Webpage[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view mbannon's profile Legend 1,814 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
2. Jun 28, 2007 10:10 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
90 degrees is too far. I think I roll about 45 degrees to each side.

------------------
Running To My Future
Me[/URL" target="_blank"> and My Log[/URL" target="_blank">
The
Newbie Wiki[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view jwcrew99's profile Pro 151 posts since
May 23, 2002
3. Jun 28, 2007 10:17 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
quote:<HR>Originally posted by Flyin Hawaiian:
She I be 90 degrees from the bottom of the pool with my stomach facing the wall.
<HR>



I think around 45 deg, you do not want to be lake a washing machine agitator.

As you pull through the stroke, you want to plant your forearm in the water keeping your elbow high, rolling your body as you pull completly past your hips. Your hand should be close to your chest as you are rotated, not deep in the water. Try this on dry land to see what the motion should be like in the water. By doing this you are using the majority of your arm as a lever to apply pressure against the water to move you forward. Your hand should exit when it is down to mid thigh. A good drill to feel where you are exiting is to flick your thumb against your thigh as you remove your hand from the water.

As Flip mentioned do the drills, you imbed the proper form into memory though lots and lots of drill sets.

Jon
Click to view LeftRightRepeat's profile Legend 1,618 posts since
Aug 16, 2007
4. Jun 28, 2007 10:31 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
quote:<HR>Originally posted by jwcrew99:
Your hand should be close to your chest as you are rotated, not deep in the water.<HR>


Really? Arm not extended? So... Elbow says bent through stroke?



------------------
->>> John[/URL" target="_blank"> <<<-
Go write something in the
Newbie Wiki[/URL" target="_blank">!!
Running Club[/URL" target="_blank"> Tri Club[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view jwcrew99's profile Pro 151 posts since
May 23, 2002
5. Jun 28, 2007 11:00 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
quote:<HR>Originally posted by LeftRightRepeat:
Really? Arm not extended? So... Elbow says bent through stroke?

<HR>


Plant forearm, as you start trough pull, keep elbow high, begin rotate, you are on a 45 degree tilt, hand sweeps down along chest (note not against), and out past your hips to your thigh.

Do this on dry land, look where your hand is pointed. It is still pointed to the ground because you have roatated on your axis. This is why the high elbow is critical.

I have some vids that I will link to this thread later tonight or tomorrow. I'm spending too much time on this at work and do not want to get in trouble with da man!

Jon
Click to view Yoshiko007's profile Legend 421 posts since
Nov 16, 2003
6. Jun 28, 2007 11:14 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
quote:<HR>Originally posted by jwcrew99:
Plant forearm, as you start trough pull, keep elbow high, begin rotate, you are on a 45 degree tilt, hand sweeps down along chest (note not against), and out past your hips to your thigh.

Do this on dry land, look where your hand is pointed. It is still pointed to the ground because you have roatated on your axis. This is why the high elbow is critical.

I have some vids that I will link to this thread later tonight or tomorrow. I'm spending too much time on this at work and do not want to get in trouble with da man!

Jon
<HR>



I understand this theoretically and I can do on dry land, but it has been very challenging under water. My arms are no longer straight but hands are still away from chest. Fingers are supposed to point toward my body ( with 'O' is my body and '<' is my arm, it is supposed to be like '<O', right? ) instead of fingers pointoward the botoom of the pool). Do you have any good drills to enforce this?

Thanks,
Click to view Paiko's profile Expert 40 posts since
Dec 21, 2004
9. Jun 28, 2007 1:19 PM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
I found "finger drag" really helped me with my rotation. On the recovery I'll try to drag my finger tips along side my body. Gets the elbow up high and you have to rotate farther to do it. A good kick with the oposite leg will get your hips rotating towards the other side and if to **** your chin ever so slightly you upper body will tend to follow.

For the pull, your thumb should point right at you as it passes your chest (make a "L" with your fingers). That sould get your arm in the proper postion.
Click to view triandstopme044's profile Legend 1,454 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
10. Dec 22, 2007 5:03 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
Click to view triandstopme044's profile Legend 1,454 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
11. Jun 28, 2007 3:09 PM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
Had to add one more clip from a TI article:

Body rotation in swimming generates propulsion just as it does in baseball, golf, or tennis (or in throwing a javelin or a punch): A biomechanical chain reaction occurs, in which the legs propel the hips, which power the torso, which drives the last link in the kinetic chain--the shoulders and arms. The most powerful movements don't start and stop in any one joint; when we employ precise body mechanics, power ripples through our bodies like it does through a cracked whip until it finally arrives at the point where it's released.

But there is one key difference in how swimmers use the kinetic chain compared to land-based athletes. On land, the chain reaction starts with twisting the body away from the direction of the swing while the legs are anchored to the ground, an action known as elastic loading, similar to a rubber band being stretched before firing. The hip **** acts like the handle of a whip, throwing the energy upward through torso, shoulders, and arms with increasing speed and power. Since swimmers cannot anchor their feet to the ground, the hips cannot act as a whip handle, making it essential that you focus on moving the entire torso.

When we are swimming with maximum effectiveness, it is torso rotation that thrusts the recovering hand forward into the water at the same time that it drives the propelling hand back. We increase stroking power not by lifting weights, but by shifting from passive body roll to dynamic body rotation, pressing into service the stronger muscles of the torso that ?feed? power to the arms.

The kinetic chain most often breaks down in swimmers--even those who are balanced and roll passively when swimming slowly--when they attempt to swim faster. Because the instinct to seek power and set stroke rhythms in the arms is so strong, 99% of all swimmers churn the arms faster and harder when they want to swim faster. But a key principle of all rhythmic movements is that they should always start in the core, not in the extremities. Your arms have so much less mass than your torso that it's easy for them to get ahead of your core body rhythms. Once they do, it?s like disconnecting a boat?s propeller from its engine.

The best way to learn to swim with your body, instead of with your arms and legs, is to combine stroke drills and super-slow swimming.
Click to view melonella's profile Legend 406 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
12. Jun 28, 2007 7:43 PM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
Aha...that Popov video is really good, esp. the last angle, at showing a nice relaxed hand as was discussed in another thread. Whole hand is nice and loose with slightly spread fingers upon entry, and only a little more tension applied during the most propulsive part of the stroke.
Click to view roostertrax's profile Amateur 30 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
14. Jun 29, 2007 7:50 AM in response to: Flyin Hawaiian
Re: Swim Hip Rotation
quote:<HR>Originally posted by melonella:
Aha...that Popov video is really good....<HR>


yabut... doesn't the dude ever breathe!!