active network espn
Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage  Search Cool Running Community
7 Replies Last post: Jul 12, 2007 3:52 PM by regiolanthe  
Click to view outsidepr's profile Amateur 24 posts since
Oct 26, 2007
Login to Reply

Jul 12, 2007 3:01 PM

Pose Method Swimming?

I read in Competitor Magazine (disclosure: I'm the editor of Competitor NorCal, but didn't assign this story) a feature on the Pose Method of Swimming. The article is a summary of a new book coming out from John Robson and Nicholas Romanov, who also wrote "The Pose Method of Running."

As further disclosure, I had and still have serious misgivings about the Pose method of running. In fact, I kind of disagree with it whole-heartedly. So I was NOT predis"posed" to agree with their foray into swimming.

But the article made some real sense to me; one of their central theses is that you "set" your arm and hand in the water and use them as the fulcrum of the force movement in your stroke. You strive to pull your body past your arm, using your hips as levers.

I'm not doing it justice here, but it did provide an "A-ha" moment for me, tying in some disparate threads of movement through water that were previously unspooled.

For example, in paddling, which I do a fair amount of, this anchoring "catch" with subsequent focus on moving your craft past your paddle - rather than trying to draw your paddle through the water - is now widely accepted, but never really applied to swimming.

They re-cast the whole idea of hip rotation, which I also appreciate and agree with but is too complicated to get into.

Also, in elite swimming, much mention is made of how great swimmers seem to "find quiet water," which could be reconfigured to mean that they are successfully finding good slots for their arms to pull their body past.

Anyway, I tried it out in the pool a couple of days ago, and found it to work. My stroke felt powerful, and since I've plateued a bit in my times, I'm eager to continue to apply it.

It doesn't really seem that they're calling for any drastic reconfiguration of the stroke. Just more of a mindset about how to move your body through the water.

So ... just wanted to know if anyone has heard of the book, or has experience in implementing its findings.

Cheers,
gw
Click to view TriBob's profile Community Moderator 377 posts since
May 25, 2007
1. Jul 12, 2007 3:08 PM in response to: outsidepr
Re: Pose Method Swimming?
This is how I teach swimming. Maybe I should write a book.

A lot of triathletes just want to survive the swim so body position is first. Few take the time to get to and concentrate on the power phase.

------------------
Help fight MS, sponsor my MS150 ride.[/URL" target="_blank">

Takes Q's, Kicks A's[/URL" target="_blank">
CR Map[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view ForceD's profile Legend 523 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
3. Jul 12, 2007 3:20 PM in response to: outsidepr
Re: Pose Method Swimming?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by outsidepr:
You strive to pull your body past your arm, using your hips as levers.<HR>


I got confused with this statement.

The song didn't say "your hip bone is connected to your arm bone." Can you explain that better, or differently?

Dan
Click to view regiolanthe's profile Legend 416 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
4. Jul 12, 2007 3:29 PM in response to: outsidepr
Re: Pose Method Swimming?
It sounds like what's explained in my swimming DVD (Go Swim Freestyle with Karlyn Pipe's Nielsen).

Basically, the DVD compares swimming to paddling a surfboard ...

The general points seem to be.

1. Hands enter wide (slightly outside of shoulder width).

2. The extended arm/glide phase is mostly there to set up for the catch. Just a hint of a straight arm/glide, and then - **** arm at elbow and pull down hard into the catch - a very mechanical motion ...

3. The power part of the stroke is IN THE FRONT - focus on the pull immediately after the catch, and not pulling so much when your hands move past your hips ...

4. Concentrate on not crossing arms under body; try to keep them outside your trunk/torso, and then roll your hips past your arms.

Probably not explained very well - but you can see what I mean about the pull in the preview for the DVD:

http://www.goswim.tv/vids/Karlyn480.mov[/URL" target="_blank">

As an aside, I think goswim.tv is a really good swim website.

I'm not there yet - but think I'm improving my stroke.

Reg.
Click to view dragonsrouges's profile Legend 1,068 posts since
Aug 16, 2007
5. Jul 12, 2007 3:40 PM in response to: outsidepr
Re: Pose Method Swimming?
Speaking of :

"4. Concentrate on not crossing arms under body; try to keep them outside your trunk/torso, and then roll your hips past your arms."


If you cross your arms under your body, most likely your fingertips are not pointing straight to the bottom of the pool and as you pull, your hand is likely slipping through the water. Try it out...
Click to view ussoccer's profile Legend 1,748 posts since
Dec 11, 2007
6. Jul 12, 2007 3:45 PM in response to: outsidepr
Re: Pose Method Swimming?
I don't see anything new here at all. At all. I learn things by doing, and after I get my feet wet and start noticing nuances, I read up all I can and, as I discover new aspects, try to apply them for myself. So in essense, I read up on things from all over the place -- books, magazines, online, athlete and coaches blogs, DVD's, etc -- and I have come away with the very notions you point out.

Maybe these are new, but these are the only ways I've known. So it seems this new method, if there isn't more to it, isn't so new after all.

In the same light, I found other popular swimming "methods" to be re-worded basic advice -- only the re-worded parts make it sound as if they are inventing it. No names mentioned here, but I'm sure a few of you know which one(s) I'm talking about.

What you speak of seems the same.

I should mention that I find these all very useful, but I don't find them "new". They just describe the same concepts using different words. I keep reading them more to keep reminding myself, not because it is explained differently.

So, really, my question might be: How is Pose different than, say, Total Immersion or any of the other swim "methods"?
Click to view regiolanthe's profile Legend 416 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
7. Jul 12, 2007 3:52 PM in response to: outsidepr
Re: Pose Method Swimming?
Well ... I took a TI clinic about 10 years ago, and read the book around the same time - so a little dated - and at that time (at any rate), the TI was a lot more focused on "fishlike" swimming that basically meant you spent a lot of time on your side, with the roll generating some power as you flipped to your other side (okay - that wasn't probably explained very well, but you get the picture) ... And, in all honesty, it seemed a lot more focused on - as TriBob said - positioning rather than where to apply the power.

This may have changed ...

However, if you take a look at that KPN video, it's a lot "flatter" stroke if you will ... You don't see a lot of her doing streamlined, sideways swimming - and there's a lot more focus on applying power at a certain point in the stroke ... As the initial poster said - sort of "anchoring" your arm in the water, then applying a hard pull to force your body forward ...

Terry Laughlin does place a lot more emphasis on the hip roll as a source of power ... This pose thing (and the KPN video) acknowledge a roll, but don't focus on it as a source of propulsion ...

Again, probably not explained very well ...

Reg.