Long runs leave me drained, is this normal?

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jlvanmeter@dow

2 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

30. Sep 22, 2006 6:16 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

I'm going to add my two cents for gels during long runs. When I was training for my first marathon (Chicago '01), I would spend most of the remainder of the day lying in bed after my long runs in this weird lethargic thirsty-but-can't-drink, nauseous-but-not, sort of feeling. After I started using gels (I prefer Cliff Shots, but am now a Shot Blok convert) I was amazed at the difference! I went from being down the rest of the day to feeling like I could take on the world.

You'll have to do some trials to determine what flavor/consistency works for you. I also received a present in the form of a jolly rancher during the Arizona Rock 'n Roll marathon this January and was pleasantly surprised at the boost it gave me. Other people proclaim the benefits of jelly bellies. Experiment and see what works for you!!

One word of caution for the NY marathon - I trained for the '03 event with lemon-lime gatorade because that's what they were going to have at the aid stations. During the race I wasn't able to get any gatorade until after mile 13 because the aid stations weren't very long and were over-crowded. I was always able to get water when I needed it. Unless they've addressed this issue, plan to be pretty flexible about your hydration on the day of the race.

dquerns

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

31. Sep 22, 2006 7:34 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

To add some perspective, I am a larger runner @ 230 lbs and I have done a number of endurance events (3 - 6 hours in duration). I estimate that I burn an average of 1200 calories per hour at an aerobic pace of activity. Another ballpark fact to keep in mind is that typically the body has around two hours of glycogen stores. In order to maintain your energy stores it is suggested that you need to exercise at no more than 70% of your aerobic maximum. What that means is that for long endurance races, such as the marathon, your main energy source MUST be fat stores as you cannot store or consume sufficient glycogen during a race to rely solely on glycogen for energy. You also need to consume about 25-30% of your hourly energy needs while you run. Good luck

Carolcrc

110 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

32. Sep 22, 2006 8:12 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

Boy, lots of good advice here! Lisa - I hear you about "what do I aim for after the marathon?" Goals really help me focus and keep training, and there is a let-down period afterwards. I've already decided that when I finish my half I'm going to drop my mileage, but keep a longer run on the weekends. This will keep me at a level where I can build back up to another 1/2 marathon in about 8 weeks if I decide to do another one (this will be my first, so I don't know if I'm going to want to repeat the experience). I think it is probably important to have a plan for post-race life. Good luck - hope all the advice helps keep you comfortable in your long runs.

davina315

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

33. Sep 22, 2006 8:42 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

I read most of the replies and want to thank everyone too for their insight. I'm training for my first marathon and will be running my second 1/2 in 1 week. My first was last year, and I'd forgotten how far I've come until I read people's experiences and realized I've felt the same exact aches/pains and made similar mistakes as everyone. I wanted to add a couple things 1) the gatorade endurance didn't make much of a difference to me than the regular, and it costs more - i'd stick with the regular stuff
and 2) I just picked up a tip about the gels (i need to try those Clif blocks, hear they're great) - and it's that rule of thumb is to consume 1 every 40-45 minutes of running. This will give your body time to absorb it in order to avoid the energy crash I had been experiencing in the 6th or 7th mile of my long runs. I will test this out in the coming weeks. Happy training!

bjgollub

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

34. Sep 22, 2006 8:47 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

I am also a big fan of energy supplements when running. I use gels and have recently used Clif's Shot Blocks, which actually taste very good. The main point is to find something that works for you and on your long runs feed your engine. I definitely notice a perceptible boost 10 - 15 minutes after using an energy supplement. On a typical half-marathon training run, I will use a supplement just before running and another half way through. In a race environment, I will add another during the race for a total of 3.

The other thing I am religious about is eating before a long run. I know you are trying to lose weight, but once again you must fuel your engine. I will typically have a bowl of cereal and a banana an hour before a long run, where early on in my running career I would go out on an empty stomach in the morning. The food in the morning makes my run much stronger.

In the end, no matter what measures you take, you will feel drained after a very long run. There is nothing wrong with a couple hour "cat nap" after a long run to bring yourself back.

Good luck in the marathon!

dwingram58

2 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

35. Sep 22, 2006 2:48 PM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

Lisa,

If you are having trouble finding Endurance Gatorade, then check out this link...

http://www.itsonthecourse.com/

In the bottom right hand corner of the page there is a graphic that says:

"Where to find Endurance Formula near you"

This might be useful all depending on where you live.

Tribiscuit

2 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

36. Sep 23, 2006 10:59 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

Na+! Don't forget the sodium. I do agree that it is the proper combination of hydration, electrolytes and carbs that is essential during endurance training or races. Just by chance, my long run, the day after a good old southern meal the night before, turned out to be one of my best and least lethargic post runs ever. The meal naturally had seasonings which included more than the recommended amounts of Salt. (tons more) After consulting my physician and doing extensive sweat rate testing, I now have increased my sports drink intake to at least 20 ounces per hour during extended training or races. I have also systematically increased the amount of sodium in the form of table salt that I add to my sports drinks. Major difference!!! Anything over 1 to 1 & 1/2 hours of training also should include proper nutrition primarily in the form easily absorbable Carbs. I use GU gels which must be followed by adequate water intake and I also add Carbopro to my sports drinks to replenish needed glycogen stores. You may find that electrolyte capsules will help also. Having completed several Ironman competitions, I have finally come to realize that "continuous more" training is not better. All the books call it "over training". Quality workouts with adequate rest in between is best. Maybe your body is telling you it needs a break! Anyway, don't be afraid to experiment but don't change anything too close to your primary race. Save changes/experimenting to your base training periods. Everyone's needs are inherently different so keep trying until you find out what works for you!

Hope this helps and good luck in N.Y.

tgallen

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

37. Sep 23, 2006 11:04 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

Hi, I am 51 years old and training to run the NYC Marathon. I have run 2 marathons in the past (Marine Corp in 1999 and San Diego Rock & Roll in 2000). Right after the San Diego run, I was diagnosed with breast cancer. After 6 years of survival, I am running for Fred's Team to raise funds for cancer research! Regarding long runs, while I am much slower than in past years, I find that drinking plenty of gatoraid and using gels are essential to not only get through the run but help me get OVER the run later. I run in the hot Alabama heat, so hydration is crucial.

Shawn2006

35 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

38. Sep 23, 2006 11:10 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

You are starving yourself. Dieting doesn't work. With only 1600 cal intake you won't loss weight and your race performance will suffer. You should be taking in daily 2400 - 2600cal min and the week before a race 3000cal daily. and don't forget you need fat...good fats, don't cut it all out.
Keep exercising, increase the Cal intake and the weight will fall off!!

melissar23

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

39. Sep 23, 2006 1:58 PM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

I am currently training for marathon #2. I have skimmed through some of the comments back to you. For your first marathon, I would say that the goal of your Saturday long runs is to take them slow and teach the body to be out there excercising and getting used to being on your feet. By no means should you be racing them. If you can not hold a conversation with someone then you are going to fast. Slow down.
Hydration and fuel for the run: Through this awesome process of training you will learn what your body needs before, durning and after the runs. What I do is start carb loading on Thursday night with pasta and will have pasta for lunch and dinner on Friday and drink plenty of water. The morning of the run, I do not eat anything since I just roll out of bed and get ready and hit the road. I do, however, wear a fuel belt or have Powergels and Gatorade and water stashed on the course. These are essential on a long run. Post run, I continue to drink fluids and will have a banana or pretzels or bagel right away. Your body is in repair mode and needs fuel to do so. Now is the time to eat a mix of proteins and carbs, more protein. If you are trying to loose weight by training for a marathon, I would be very careful in doing so. And don't expect to loose a lot of weight. Most of the weight loss will show up later in the training when you get up in the high teens for a long run.
Yes, you will feel tired post long run. That is a lot on your body. Eat, drink and a nice power nap should do the trick to chasing the tired away for the day. FYI, if I don't get a nap, I will usually sleep 12 or more hours that night. GOOD LUCK on your training and the marathon!!!!

jkmlne

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

40. Sep 23, 2006 2:11 PM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

My experience, is that I trained at too fast a pace on the long runs; I thought I should better my time on each marathon, so I ran harder in training.

Big mistake. I didn't have enough energy, no matter what I ate and drank, to perform well past 10-12 miles, because I wasn't fully recovering, due to pushing too hard/fast on the weekly long run. Recovery is key.

I could go the 26.2, but at a slower pace each mile after the 1st half.

Now I build endurance by running slower and staying out there longer. Come race day, I'm lots fresher at 20 miles and can bring it in at a better time than in those races I used up too much energy in training.

Lopezlisa67

18 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

41. Sep 23, 2006 6:04 PM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

I don't know how to thank you all. I'm training for this alone and your advice has been invaluable. I've tried your suggestions and my overall running experience has improved tremendously. I just ran my first 20 miler this morning and I was so happy/proud/stunned afterward I nearly cried. Ran it in 3:41, which is better than I had hoped. I've really worked on pacing (i.e. staying slow) over the last few weeks and it has made a huge difference. I admit, I kicked it up at mile 17 today (to catch "1/2 marathon finisher" guy), but brought it right back down at 18 and let him go on without me.

I have to echo the comments on the CliF Shot Blocks, good stuff indeed. I highly recommend Black Cherry. I'm snacking on them right now (is that bad??). I tried my first gel today (PowerBar w/caffeine) at mile 12 (a little too late I might add), but it [b][i]really[/i][/b] helped. Next time I'll take two, one at mile 10 and then maybe 15 or 16. The gel was a huge hurdle for me, it seemed unwarranted, but WOW. Now I get it. I'll be choking these down from here on out (or eating the yummy bloks, not sure which). I finally got the hydration part figured out and the water/gatorade mix was an excellent idea! Today I tried this stuff called EnduroxR4 immediately after my run, the bike shop guy highly recommended it and offered a money back guarantee, so I couldn't resist. It tasted awful in my opinion, kinda like foul Strawberry Quik (the bunny stuff from the 70's) but bike guy swears it helps with recovery. We shall see. Right now I'm a little sore, but not wiped out. As for 1650 cals a day, not happening anymore, but I'm eating better than ever. I've increased the cals considerably before and after long runs. In fact, in preparation for today's 6:30 a.m. run I woke up at 2:45 a.m. for the sole purpose of eating a bowl of Uncle Sam (where has this stuff been all my life?) w/soy milk and then had a bagel the size of a truck tire (w/butter) at 5:45 a.m. It's all about bagels, bananas and cereal these days and I'm still dropping the excess weight. My boss said she's never seen someone eat so many carbs and lose weight (she's one of those Zone junkies, silly woman).

One more question, if the race is in Nov, is Feb too soon to do a half marathon? And can I keep up the long runs indefinitely?

Special thanks to Dwingram58 for the gatorade endurance tip and jlvanmeter for the NYM tip, I'll be bringing my own gatorade for sure. Thank you Thank you Thank you everyone. Even though I'm doing this alone I still feel like part of a community. I wish you all the very best in your training endeavors. I'm still a little high from this morning accomplishment and would hug you all if I could. HA!

usarox

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

42. Sep 23, 2006 7:39 PM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

Stay away from simple sugars which only cause highs and lows. Drink supplements with complex carbs and protein. When in need of a quick lift, try hammer gel. It is excellent for energy. I mix it with water in a bottle and it keeps me hydrated and full of energy. They are also other long lasting drinks available. It will make a worlsd of difference. Good luck

stopka77

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

43. Sep 25, 2006 6:55 AM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

Not sure if anyone has said this yet, but you may need to eat an energy gel or banana during your long runs. This takes more planning but try eating a gel 45min to 60 minutes into your run and 30 minutes there after. This will make a big difference. Happy running.

hartz2

1 posts since
Jul 9, 2007

44. Sep 25, 2006 6:46 PM

in response to: Lopezlisa67

I feel drained too after long runs, but I know it's my iron. The doc wanted to do a transfusion since my iron has been so low, but I've been trying to bring it up on my own. I've brought it up slightly by eating foods high in iron and taking supplements, but it's still at about 30% or a 10. Any suggestions?

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