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Click to view NoleInTraining's profile Expert 44 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

Jun 26, 2007 11:09 PM

Finding your "Aerobic Threshold" HR...

Unfortunately, I can't find a place to do any AT/AeT testing in my local area, so I'm trying to find a more accurate way to determine my most efficient training zones then just simple formulas.

For example, my MAF HR (according to Maffetone) is 146+5 = 151 (34 years old, been running for a year = +5). The problem is, even at MAF +5 (156) I feel as if I'm running well within my aerobic zone - not necessarily at the "Max". I'm breathing almost exclusively through my nose and can converse with very little issues. I always feel as if I could continue the run (even the long runs - unless my feet or legs get a bit fatigued which doesn't seem to be the fault of my CV system) much farther.

My question: can I safely assume I'm running mostly "aerobically" given the above description? Also, is the MAF supposed to be where you're 50/50 Aerobic/Anaerobic, or is some other ratio?

Incidentally, my number 1 immediate goal is to build a solid aerobic base - with a secondary goal of burning as many calories as possible while doing so. I'd love to be able to run as fast as possible, as long as my aerobic training doesn't suffer. Is it possible to feel the way I do on these runs (i.e. very comfortable) and still be running mostly anaerobically?
Click to view tigger077's profile Legend 691 posts since
Nov 19, 1999
1. Jun 27, 2007 5:47 AM in response to: NoleInTraining
Re: Finding your "Aerobic Threshold" HR...
One of my most valuable pieces of running information is my maximum heart rate as observed during an interval session. Once you know that number you can get an approximate range for easy running, (70 to 75% of MHR) mid paced running, (75 to 85%) and threshold running. (85% to 90%)

You can get a decent approximation of your MHR in a stress test. Or you can simple go out and run some hard 800 meter intervals and read your heart rate monitor after the 3rd or 4th interval. Whatever the highest number is, that is what you can use for MHR.
Click to view formationflier's profile Legend 989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007
2. Dec 22, 2007 12:16 PM in response to: NoleInTraining
Re: Finding your "Aerobic Threshold" HR...
Aerobic threshold is an even more ambiguous quantity than
anaerobic threshold. Other than going beyond my physiological
knowledge, hopefully the last conversation (about anaerobic
threshold) has enlightened you to the fact that it's far from
being a magic number and you can't really say something like
"50% aerobic/50% anaerobic" and have it mean something.
The common definitions of aerobic threshold will tie to
respiratory quotient (RQ) which is the ratio of carbon dioxide
produced to oxygen consumed, and which corresponds (not
in a linear fashion) to how much fat vs glycogen is being used
as an energy source (Respiratory Quotient[/URL" target="_blank">.
This gives one measure of "how aerobic" one is in the run. There is
a book called "The Science of Nutrition" by Lusk (1906), which
includes a table of values of RQ and how they tie to percentage of
fat vs glycogen used for energy. The aerobic threshold is frequently
defined as an intensity somewhere between 25% glycogen/75% fat
and 50% glycogen/50% fat for fuel, which corresponds to RQ
ranging from about .78 to .83. Another decent estimate is about
80-85% anaerobic threshold. In either case, these are very low
heart rates. The only way really to get these quantities would be
to have a vo2max test or similar, where oxygen in/CO2 out is
measured. For people who do not have very low anaerobic
thresholds, the Maffetone formula can give you a decent approximation
into this range, but if you're not happy with it and you want something
accurate (accurate meaning not necessarily what you'd get from
perceived exertion), then you'd really need a vo2max test.
Max heart rate is not a good indicator for aerobic threshold because
there are many people that have very high max heart rates, but
very low anaerobic thresholds, and subsequently lower aerobic
thresholds. For example, my max heart rate is 210, but my anaerobic
threshold is 177. There are friends of mine whose maxes are
between 190 and 197, with higher anaerobic thresholds and subsequently
higher aerobic thresholds.

And, if you don't like to buy into any of this, the aerobic threshold
is characterized by an intensity that is low enough to where when you
finish a long run (of a distance that you're generally comfortable with),
you will not be shot at the end and, in fact, you may feel like you
did almost nothing. People with poor aerobic conditioning may not
actually be able to run at all below aerobic threshold. I've seen many
examples.

Now, indeed you are correct - the aerobic threshold (that given by
the Maffetone formula or anything similar) is not even close to the
limits of your aerobic system! It's far down, The anaerobic threshold
defines the upper limit, to some extent. If you run close to your
anaerobic threshold, that's basically a tempo run, not something you'll
be doing for most of your workouts, but not more than about once,
maybe twice (for someone experienced) a week. The approach
tigger mentions is certainly a well-accepted alternative to finding a
nice aerobic heart rate to work with. In either case, the fact that
you feel that you're not at the limit of your aerobic system when
running for most of your mileage is a good thing. That's how you
should be running most of your mileage.

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http://This message has been edited by leitnerj (edited Jun-27-2007).