What's the thinking on Stu Mittelman's MEP zone? Is anyone using that zone for some portion of their training? If so, when do you begin to incorporate it, how often do you do MEP runs, etc.?

I was looking for some justification for moving my training zone a little higher for a few weeks while I prepare for my fall HMs, and Mittelman's MEP zone seems to fit the bill for that. (Yea, yea, I know. It reeks to seek scientific rationale for doing what you want to do.)

I've been trying MEP this week (T,W,Th).

MAF zone 119-129 (180-46-5 for allergies)
MEP zone 127-142

In the MEP zone, I am able to run my entire distance, with walking only on my two steep hill sections, staying in zone for 1:45 of a 2:00 run Wednesday. All but about 1-2 minutes of the rest was warming up or cooling down, so below zone. My AHR was 135 Tues (4.4 miles); 135 Wed (7.8 miles); and 133 Thurs (7.1 miles).

I'm not feeling noticeably tired-er or sore-r moving at slightly faster pace. (Time differential is about 45 sec. to 1 min. faster than MAF)

Any thoughts or experience you have with MEP would be appreciated.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:
As stated previously, one purpose of training this way (MAF) is to burn more fat (all the time). And, the worse thing to do before a race is to eat a lot of carbs, especially high glycemic ones, which can reduce fat burning.<HR>

Thanks for the replies. I don't mean to beat this into the ground but the concept seems slightly counter-intuitive to me. I understand burning fat for energy, LHR training principles, etc. But if during a race I am now reaching anaerobic levels (which, during training, I had mostly avoided)and my body is now relying partially on carbs for energy, won't there be some kind of deficit when I have nothing but fat (I know that is overstated) to draw on?

Another concern I have is if I don't PIG OUT the night before that I am going to be FAMISHED during the race. Right now, the night before a long run I will eat a normal dinner around 7:00 p.m. and I don't get home until 8:00 a.m. or so from my long run. That is a long time without eating and my stomach lets me know! For the marathon, I don't anticipate fininshing until around 9:30 a.m. or so which is even longer between eating. I would be considered a healthy eater but I love food, what can I say. Any ideas or thoughts?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Preto:
Thanks for the replies. I don't mean to beat this into the ground but the concept seems slightly counter-intuitive to me. I understand burning fat for energy, LHR training principles, etc. But if during a race I am now reaching anaerobic levels (which, during training, I had mostly avoided)and my body is now relying partially on carbs for energy, won't there be some kind of deficit when I have nothing but fat (I know that is overstated) to draw on?

Another concern I have is if I don't PIG OUT the night before that I am going to be FAMISHED during the race. Right now, the night before a long run I will eat a normal dinner around 7:00 p.m. and I don't get home until 8:00 a.m. or so from my long run. That is a long time without eating and my stomach lets me know! For the marathon, I don't anticipate fininshing until around 9:30 a.m. or so which is even longer between eating. I would be considered a healthy eater but I love food, what can I say. Any ideas or thoughts?<HR>

The goal in endurance training is to run faster at the same (or lower) heart rates, which is associated with burning more fat and less sugar at higher intensities (including races). You always burn both fat and sugar, it's a question of how much of each.

Other than a treadmill test that measures RQ, the MAF test is the only good objective indicator I've seen that is useful for a person to know that fat burning is increasing.

Maffetone has something in his books about how many runners (75%?) race a PR after base building and before any anaerobic training. I've seen similar results with treadmill testing (improved RQ's after base building which would lead to better race times).

If you have to overeat before a race, and feel overly hungry on race day, it could mean you're still not in a good fat burning state.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by fit45:
What's the thinking on Stu Mittelman's MEP zone? Is anyone using that zone for some portion of their training? If so, when do you begin to incorporate it, how often do you do MEP runs, etc.?

I was looking for some justification for moving my training zone a little higher for a few weeks while I prepare for my fall HMs, and Mittelman's MEP zone seems to fit the bill for that. (Yea, yea, I know. It reeks to seek scientific rationale for doing what you want to do.)

I've been trying MEP this week (T,W,Th).

MAF zone 119-129 (180-46-5 for allergies)
MEP zone 127-142

In the MEP zone, I am able to run my entire distance, with walking only on my two steep hill sections, staying in zone for 1:45 of a 2:00 run Wednesday. All but about 1-2 minutes of the rest was warming up or cooling down, so below zone. My AHR was 135 Tues (4.4 miles); 135 Wed (7.8 miles); and 133 Thurs (7.1 miles).

I'm not feeling noticeably tired-er or sore-r moving at slightly faster pace. (Time differential is about 45 sec. to 1 min. faster than MAF)

Any thoughts or experience you have with MEP would be appreciated.<HR>

I can't recall Mittelman's acronyms. He has 3 of them; MEP, MAP, something else.... I have Slow Burn at home - I'll check then pass along my thoughts. I've tried at his different HR ranges - and can give insight on myself at least. Just at least responding since there have already been about 6 posts since I saw this - and all are on a different topic - so if I don't put something in now, your question'll get buried.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by dfcameron:
I can't recall Mittelman's acronyms. He has 3 of them; MEP, MAP, something else.... I have Slow Burn at home - I'll check then pass along my thoughts. I've tried at his different HR ranges - and can give insight on myself at least. Just at least responding since there have already been about 6 posts since I saw this - and all are on a different topic - so if I don't put something in now, your question'll get buried.
<HR>

Mittleman was a great ultra marathoner, who was trained by Maffetone for many years. Mittleman took Maffetone's material and made it way to complicated, and for no reason.

Keep it simple.

I have a question about resting heart rate. I've read for a long time that when your resting heart rate rises, you are stressed and approaching overtraining. I've been monitoring my heart rate throughout this training cycle. Over the last week or two it has begun to rise in the morning. I take it upon waking before I get out of bed. It was steadily going down for months, then seemed to plateau at 53 or so, then began to rise in the last week or two. My policy has been to treat a single one day rise as an anamoly and to run anyways, but if it is raised for two days in a row then I need to back off. Yesterday it was 55, down from the previous day of 56, so I ran my planned 10 miles. Today, it is 59. Today is a rest day so that's good, but I'm worried about the increasing trend. Tomorrow is my long run, a back off week with a 3 hour run planned. Next weekend is my last long run before my taper towards VT50 on Sept 30. Next week I'm running the Groundhog Day 50K. So, here' my question finally. When do you tend to determine that you need to rest based on your resting heart rate? How much rest? When do you return to training? As for my situation, do ya'll think if it hasn't come down tomorrow for my run to skip it and just do the 30 miler next week, with my short runs during the week? I'm most interested in hearing how you people use resting heart rate as a guide to overtraing, how much rise do you accept before having to rest/skip runs, ect.. Thank you.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Gregolowe:
I'm most interested in hearing how you people use resting heart rate as a guide to overtraing, how much rise do you accept before having to rest/skip runs, ect.. Thank you. <HR>

Hi Greg!

What I have found is that when my resting HR starts to rise, there are always other signs that its time to take a rest. For example, earlier this week, my resting HR rose from its normal 50bpm to 55bpm, then 62, then 65. I've also been suffering from severe insomnia, my allergies have been worse than they have in years, I've had a couple of little aches and pains crop up (mostly- my left shin. I've never had any problems with shin splints), I've had trouble controlling my HR on runs, and I've been really, really moody and irritable- just ask DH. My point is- my body usually tells me in other ways when its time to take a break. The rise in resting HR really just confirms it for me.

As for the length of break that I typically take- well, there's no real solid answer for that. After one day of no running, My HR this a.m. was back to 52. I actually managed to get some sleep last night, my allergies are still there, but no where near as troubling, my shin pain is gone. I'm still a little irritable, but that could be because I want to be running, but know I need to take a break.

When making a decision about returning to running, I typically consider a couple of things. First- that the symptoms that caused me to take a break are gone. In my case, they are much improved today. Secondly- I consider how busy and stressful my life will be outside of running over the next few days. I have a very physically and emotionally stressful job, and am working 12 hour shifts for the next 3 days, starting tomorrow. That, alone, could be enough to set me back. So, will I run today? Well, I've decided to see how I feel by the end of the day today, and if I'm feeling good, I'll go for a short run (probably 5-6 miles, today was supposed to be 13), and see how that goes. But I won't run on the days that I'm working- I'll walk to work instead. Then I'll start fresh next week. I'm going to be on vacation, so that's probably a really good time to ease back in.

I don't know if you are experiencing any other symptoms, as I am, but the rise in resting HR is certainly an indicator that trouble could be brewing. If I were you, even if you feel completely fine aside from the rising HR, I'd take a day off, get lots of rest, and see if that is enough to bring you back to normal. I find that often, a single day of REAL rest (i.e.- rent some movies, and REALLY relax), is enough. Hope this helps a little!

Pam

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