Skip navigation
Community: Exchange advice in the forums and read running commentary Resources: Personal running log, calculators, links and other tools for runners News: Running news from around the world Training: Articles and advice about fitness, race training and injury prevention Races/Results: Find upcoming races and past results Home: The Cool Running homepage
Cool Running homepage  Search Cool Running Community

2380 Views 53 Replies Latest reply: Jul 14, 2007 5:15 PM by Graciemygirl Go to original post 1 2 3 4 Previous Next
  • mrinertia Pro 1,310 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    30. Jul 11, 2007 2:57 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by biketm:

    Sure there are junk miles.....those runs where a person is exhausted, tired, and sore, and is only running because of the guilt of a rest day, and ends up walking home. Done that many times when I should of rested...same thing cycling.

    Tim




     




    True dat. Revised on a later post to say there's no such thing as junk miles assuming they're run correctly.

  • AndyHass Rookie 1,368 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    31. Jul 11, 2007 2:58 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    Do it, log them.  Be a trooper and show up early to get some extra distance in on that nice grass track outside to make it worth the shower.

    A few extra miles will help not hurt you.  When you are doing 30 mpw for a marathon you need every mile you can get, they are not junk.

  • donnyl Amateur 587 posts since
    Nov 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    33. Jul 11, 2007 6:03 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by Nobby:

    While I should be the one to be saying "Miles Makes Champions" and "the more you can run, the better"; I would also say that some people may not be in a position to jump into 90 miles a week training. If you carefully evaluate your strengths and weaknesses and construct your miles carefully and intelligently, you'd be surprised what you can do with it. 30 was probably my wife's highest weekly mileage when she was training for her first marathon and she did 3:54. So don't under-estimate. There's nothing wrong with 1-mile recovery jog.


     



    Come on Nobby, are you just playing devil's advocate or what? Who said anything about jumping right into 90 miles? My original point was that if you have to run anyway, why not make the most of it and up the mileage. Why wait till later? Exactly how is there nothing wrong with a one mile recovery jog? Do you honestly believe that? Your wife ran 3:54 off 30 miles per week. "Don't underestimate", what does that mean? 30 miles a week is a joke for marathon training, period, for anyone, and you know it.

  • Nobby063 Rookie 630 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    34. Jul 11, 2007 7:45 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by laker:

    Come on Nobby, are you just playing devil's advocate or what? Who said anything about jumping right into 90 miles? My original point was that if you have to run anyway, why not make the most of it and up the mileage. Why wait till later? Exactly how is there nothing wrong with a one mile recovery jog? Do you honestly believe that? Your wife ran 3:54 off 30 miles per week. "Don't underestimate", what does that mean? 30 miles a week is a joke for marathon training, period, for anyone, and you know it.


     



    Laker:

    Yes, I do. But, you know what, I don't mean to stir things up too much but, to tell you the truth, I don't think running a sub-4 marathon that big of a deal either. I wouldn't call it a joke; but I wouldn't call it...well, I can't think of an appropriate term for that... (;o))

    But the point is; there are a lot of people out there who want to run a marathon today. While I don't necessarily agree with this "trend", I still think it's a good addiction. I'd rather encourage someone who wants to run a marathon in 4:30 on 30MPW training than not doing it at all. And those are the people who need encouragement;not someone who is a 3:30 guy and thinks he knows everything there is to know about training and look down on someone who's trying to run 5-hour marathon (don't get me wrong, I'm not saying you are). In fact, I secretly get a kick out of crushing their ego! ;o)

    1 mile jog is just fine.  For someone who's starting out; it could mean a 20-minutes jog.  Nothin' wrong with dat!  It could be a 20-minute plod for 1 mile today; but it could become "a part of" 45 minutes 5 mile jog next year; who knows???  But if you tell them 1 mile plod is nothing but a joke now; then they may stop there.  Nothing wrong with 1 mile jog--I'll welcome that any day.

  • mrinertia Pro 1,310 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    35. Jul 11, 2007 8:18 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by Nobby:

    Laker:

    Yes, I do. But, you know what, I don't mean to stir things up too much but, to tell you the truth, I don't think running a sub-4 marathon that big of a deal either. I wouldn't call it a joke; but I wouldn't call it...well, I can't think of an appropriate term for that... (;o))

    .


     



    So what do you consider a decent marathon? Or, specifically if someone was contemplating their first marathon and was looking at a 5 hour finish, would you recomend him postponing his first until he had a shot at a sub 4 hour, or 3:45? Is there a general guidline you have for first timers when it comes to setting a time goal, or is it a time/experience/base thing where you feel that a runner should be running for X amount of time and have X miles for a base before training for his first?

  • Nobby063 Rookie 630 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    36. Dec 22, 2007 12:47 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by mrinertia:

    ...Is there a general guidline you have for first timers when it comes to setting a time goal, or is it a time/experience/base thing where you feel that a runner should be running for X amount of time and have X miles for a base before training for his first?


     



    Not really.... It is what it is; if the person wants to run a marathon, I'd value that. From there on, it's just a matter of finding out what he/she is capable of; what he/she can do within his/her life-style; back ground, etc. etc. etc...

    This young lady I'm coaching to be an 800m runner; she wanted to run Chicago marathon last year--that was the reason why she got back into running after 10 years break. I wasn't too excited about her running the marathon; but I valued it. That was her goal. So we worked out the plan and schedule accordingly. She wanted to run it in 4-hours (I don't know exactly where she got that target time...). After a few months of training, I thought she could do 3:45. Then about a month before, I thought she could do 3:30. Chicago was too damn cold and windy and I wasn't there to pace her. She went out a bit too fast (she wasn't dressed properly either). She ran 3:41. My wife's case was a bit different. Knowing her background, I thought she could break 4 but thought the chance would be 50/50. She didn't train as much (I said 30 but probably actually even less). So I thnk it's case by case.

    Okay I'm probably avoiding the answer. Knowing some people are not going to like what I'm going to say; I think, it's not so much of time (duration) or speed (minute-per-mile); but if you have to take walking breaks (so frequently) within running, say, 16 miles or so (I've just picked up this number out of blue); I would say you are probably not quite ready to run a marathon. Run/walk pattern is perfectly fine, don't get me wrong, just to get to the finish and claim that you have "participated" the marathon. But I would personally not call it "running" a marathon. Just as race walking is different from marathon "running" and just as 26 miles marathon is different from 100km ultra; I wouldn't particularly call it a "marathoning". Again, if he/she is so desperately want to get that "finisher's" medal, fine. Get to the finish line no matter what. But I would pesonally not suggest someone who HAS TO walk 1/4 of the way to complete a 16-mile training "run" to do it. Would you suggest someone who could only lift 100 pounds bench-press to go ahead and try 150 pounds? No, it's dangerous. In the marathon, you can break it down and insert "walking breaks" to get to the finish; whereas, you can't take that 150 pounds and take 30 pounds at a time and lift it 5 times and say you've lifted 150 pounds. Well... So personally, if you can't complete, whatever it might be, 16, 18 or 20 miles; or it could be 2 hours or 2:30 or 3-hours...somewhere around that; if you can't complete the RUN for that duration, I would suggest you take a look at your current condition and think twice about running a marathon. This is my take. Why? Because I thnk it could hurt you (if you try to do it when you're not quite conditioned enough).

    [http://This message has been edited by Nobby (edited Jul-11-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Nobby (edited Jul-11-2007).]

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    37. Dec 22, 2007 12:47 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by aurang:


     

    Some people, like myself, suck too much to run for their school.

    [/B][/QUOTE]

    Aurang,

    Make that "most people...suck too much to run for their school." The overwhelming majority, in fact. Those who run for a strong college program are probably in the upper 1% of people who run--maybe a fraction of 1%.

    Your are running well enough to finish in the upper few % in the vast majority of road races, and things figure to get better too. A very good sign that most of your PR's have come in last couple months.



    [http://This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jul-11-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jul-11-2007).]

  • Jim24315 Legend 1,987 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    38. Dec 22, 2007 12:47 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    I agree with Laker on 30 mpw marathons. I will hazard a guess and say that anyone whose only motivation to run is to someday plod through a marathon on training that is far below their potential will be members of the "I used to run" club within a few years or less.

    If you don't enjoy running enough to find some interest in distances other than the marathon, then you aren't likely to last.

    This is coming from someone who shortly after starting to run became obsessed with running a marathon. It was a great thrill to dedicate a year of training to finishing in a time that I was proud of too. However, I feel that the reason I have been able to enjoy this sport from almost 30 years now is that I have learned that there is a whole lot more it than just running marathons.

    [http://This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jul-11-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jul-11-2007).]

  • willamona Rookie 387 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    39. Jul 11, 2007 11:18 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    I was an older nontraditional student when I ran a year for a Division III school.  They needed bodies and even though I smoked 2 packs a day at the time, I was breathing.  I ran 3000s for that school and all they cared about was that I finished.  LOL We had an interesting team.  The school had to drop to NAIA the following year, but not because of us.  The women's track team did their job!  It was an interesting injury filled season for me.

    ----



    ***********
    My myspace[/URL" target="_blank">
    No Complaining[/URL" target="_blank">
    Low Heart Rate Training FAQ [/URL" target="_blank"> Because many have asked...
    You have poopie pants.

  • gbhglacier Rookie 17 posts since
    Jul 15, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    40. Jul 12, 2007 2:31 AM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    Back in the day... far too long ago for my liking... any time I had a valid concern about a class, I'd take it first to the prof... which you have done.  If the prof didn't care... I'd take it to the dean of the department.  Come on... you run 30 plus miles a week... you clearly know how to jog.  Grab a couple of your running friends and form a "running club"... if even just for show.  Tell the dean you're willing to do the lectures and then run with the club... making certain to document it all.

    Just fight the system a little. The initiative you show ought to break any walls. You'll finish the class knowing more about group running than any sap that runs laps in half a gym.

    George

  • Graciemygirl Rookie 27 posts since
    Apr 12, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    41. Dec 22, 2007 12:47 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    This is coming from someone who shortly after starting to run became obsessed with running a marathon. It was a great thrill to dedicate a year of training to finishing in a time that I was proud of too. However, I feel that the reason I have been able to enjoy this sport from almost 30 years now is that I have learned that there is a whole lot more it than just running marathons.

    [http://This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jul-11-2007).|http://This message has been edited by Jim24315 (edited Jul-11-2007).][/B][/QUOTE]

    Right!  But you started there...with that goal...so LAKER's  POV of knocking people for taking steps towards his level of "greatness" is mean and negative...bad karma!  Nobody asked if him if he was impressed by their running ability and to knock them down for asking advice is mean spirited.  Why beat someone up for not running just like you?  I think that sucks!  I mean....did laker start out at 50 miles per week?  I doubt it!  What happened to the Golden Rule?!





    Angie Drew 
  • Graciemygirl Rookie 27 posts since
    Apr 12, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    42. Jul 12, 2007 1:57 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:

    How well?


     



    To those who are starting out with that as a goal...WHO CARES HOW WELL they do.  They accomplish something great!  While they may not be elite runners...they did it!  Those who are elite, had to start somewhere.  Nobody starts out running 50+ mpw!  My point is give the guy a break, listen and be constructive.





    Angie Drew 
  • joev9 Rookie 474 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    43. Jul 12, 2007 2:49 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by laker:

    Don't kid yourself, a one mile run is a day off whether you call it a streak or not. I'd be a lot more impressed with a streak of say 50 miles a week, regardless of how many days off you took each week.


     



    I'm with you on this one laker.  My father has a friend who is a streaker and has run at least 2 miles a day for like 25+ years.  He gets treated like some kind of running god when in actuality he is slower than slow.  I give him credit for sticking with something that long, but I always wonder what he could have done with a smarter training program that had some days off here and there...

  • donnyl Amateur 587 posts since
    Nov 9, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    44. Jul 12, 2007 3:55 PM (in response to wing zero)
    Re: What to do about required junk mileage???

    quote:


    Originally posted by Graciemygirl:

    To those who are starting out with that as a goal...WHO CARES HOW WELL they do. They accomplish something great! While they may not be elite runners...they did it! Those who are elite, had to start somewhere. Nobody starts out running 50+ mpw! My point is give the guy a break, listen and be constructive.


     



    I was being constructive. The Op came on here asking for advice. Take your feel good crap and shove it. If you listen to what the experienced  people on here say, you might learn something and actually "accomplish something great". Those who are elite, and sub elite, and just plain average generally work very hard. Do you?

More Like This

  • Retrieving data ...