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9996 Views 78 Replies Latest reply: Feb 21, 2008 6:34 AM by JPGarland RSS Go to original post 1 2 3 4 5 6 Previous Next
  • arfenarf Amateur 36 posts since
    Jun 22, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    30. Mar 16, 2007 11:06 AM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    I may be a little simple-minded here, but this is what I'm taking away from the study:

    If you're going to run a marathon, for Pete's sake, respect the distance and train your body (including its heart) properly. That means that 45mpw is the kind of training base at which the heart shows less damage from the race. Those who put their body through a 26.2 mile ordeal with less preparation risk doing more harm than good.

    Is that more or less it?

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    My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

  • PerfesserR Amateur 153 posts since
    Sep 7, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    31. Dec 22, 2007 7:53 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    Emory Hospital in Atlanta is offering discounted spiral cardiac CT scans before the ING Marathon next week, I guess they will show some types of blockages in the coronary arteries. I got mine. It eliminates one risk factor, I guess.
    One of those deaths in 2006 was an acquaintance, which really hit home.

    [http://This message has been edited by PerfesserR (edited Mar-16-2007).|http://This message has been edited by PerfesserR (edited Mar-16-2007).]

  • Holly S. Legend 1,828 posts since
    Nov 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    32. Mar 16, 2007 12:37 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    I found it a little alarming that after reading this thread and those articles last night, I checked my e-mail and found that my SIL had sent me an article about heart attacks and women. 

    I had that Twilight Zone music playing in my mind...

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    Holly[/URL" target="_blank">

  • roy c Legend 452 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    34. Mar 16, 2007 5:03 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    I think we will be seeing a lot more people signing in on the 40/40 thread.  !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/biggrin.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/biggrin.gif|border=0!
    Roy

  • PerfesserR Amateur 153 posts since
    Sep 7, 2005
    Currently Being Moderated
    35. Mar 16, 2007 5:29 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    quote:


    Originally posted by roy c:

    I think we will be seeing a lot more people signing in on the 40/40 thread. !http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/biggrin.gif|src=http://www.coolrunning.com/forums/biggrin.gif|border=0!
    Roy


     



    OTOH, one of the 2006 cardiac deaths was near the finish line of the Tucson Marathon, a 40-year old man who had previously completed a 700-mile ultra (yes, really), 30 marathons, 25 ultras including the high-altitude Hardrock 100-miler, and double and triple Ironmans. I don't know his training routine but I'm pretty confident that he did a lot more than 40 miles per week. Sometimes these things just can't be predicted.<br /><br />Marathon & Beyond, March/April 2007

  • Tetsujin30 Legend 945 posts since
    Jan 1, 2006
    Currently Being Moderated
    37. Mar 16, 2007 7:51 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    Originally posted by dtoce:
    <b>Proper</b> training is the key and probably varies with us individually./QUOTE

    . . . such as being fit in general to start with and what our respective marathon goals are from one-or-the-other, or all, of from fitness and fun (maybe even less training than 45 mpw) to competition, PR’s, BQ’s, and winning (probably more than 45 mpw)

  • mcsolar99 Legend 1,014 posts since
    Aug 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    38. Mar 16, 2007 8:16 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    quote:


    Originally posted by PerfesserR:

    OTOH, one of the 2006 cardiac deaths was near the finish line of the Tucson Marathon, a 40-year old man who had previously completed a 700-mile ultra (yes, really), 30 marathons, 25 ultras including the high-altitude Hardrock 100-miler, and double and triple Ironmans. I don't know his training routine but I'm pretty confident that he did a lot more than 40 miles per week. Sometimes these things just can't be predicted.<br /><br />Marathon & Beyond, March/April 2007




    friend related that another friend spoke with marc at the tucson marathon expo (so officially this is hearsay); marc witkes had trouble at a prior race and had been advised not to continue racing by his dr.  it was not just out of the blue, he had some warning.  autopsy confirmed he had a congenital cardiac condition.

  • jura Legend 566 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    39. Dec 22, 2007 7:53 PM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    “The majority of the abnormal changes in cardiac structure or function as well as cardiac biomarker (cTnT) changes were seen

    in those athletes training 35 miles/wk before the marathon (those less prepared for the marathon)

    .”
    Thefinalsprint article

    “The sound scans and blood tests showed definite signs of heart stress, but no evidence that heart cells died from the running. Heart chambers experienced some difficulty refilling after pumping blood out. Abnormalities also occurred in pumping of blood from the right side of the heart to the lungs. Runners' heartbeats increased by 40 beats a minute, and they lost an average of 3 pounds.

    None of these changes, however, caused any medical problems during or immediately after the race. Also, "There is no data to suggest that any long-term aftereffects were caused by the changes," Wood notes.


    The most important finding is that any worrisome evidence of possible dysfunction turned out to be most pronounced in runners who spent the least time in training.

    Those who prepared by running 45 miles or more a week exhibited much fewer signs of heart stress than people who ran 35 miles a week or less

    .”
    Harvard article

    “Six highly trained marathon runners developed myocardial infarction. One of the two cases of clinically diagnosed myocardial infarction was fatal, and there were four cases of angiographically-proven infarction. Two athletes had significant arterial disease of two major coronary arteries, a third had stenosis of the anterior descending and the fourth of the right coronary artery. All these athletes had warning symptoms. Three of them completed marathon races despite symptoms, one athlete running more than 20 miles after the onset of exertional discomfort to complete the 56 mile Comrades Marathon.

    In spite of developing chest pain, another athlete who died had continued training for three weeks, including a 40 mile run. Two other athletes also continued to train with chest pain…

       Rather we refute exaggerated claims that marathon running provides complete immunity from coronary heart disease.”
    Noakes article

    Sorry for the seemingly endless quotes from the articles we already read. The reason I did the cut and paste job is to demonstrate three very different points here.

    1.

    The average non–elite runner who wants to complete the marathon but does not put in the required miles faces the risk of stress to their heart and circulation system that in most cases short term. That means that the heart, just like any other muscle in the body got overworked and need to recover. I know that the heart is a special (and different) muscle tissue, so cannot quite compare to other muscles,but still there is no evidence reported of long term effects after a marathon run. I think proper recovery is the key.

    2.

    Two of the articles talked about the importance of enough mileage, but although most of you concluded that 45 is the cut-off, I read it differently. Under 35 is clearly not enough. Over 45 is best. But there is 10 miles difference between those numbers, and many of us hover in this “grey area”. Are we doing it wrong? I don’t think so. Like with everything, one size doesn’t fit all. The closer we are to the 45 marker, the better, but there is no point in stressing over a couple miles. I think consistency and the right kind of training is more important then the #’s.

    3.

    Obviously a runner who has a pre-existing heart condition, who ignores the signs of heart distress and instead of cutting down will stress his/her body to the extreme will put himself to a very high risk of heart failure. Those fatalities mentioned in the Noakes article seem to fall into this category. But these cases are far from the mainstream.

    For me the take home message is simple:
    1. Make sure I am healthy (regular check ups).
    2. Train up for my goal races properly.
    3. Listen to my body (that would be the hardest) and act upon any sign of stress.

    That’s pretty much it. I am not worried about continuing to push my limits.


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    jura[/URL" target="_blank">

    [http://This message has been edited by jura (edited Mar-16-2007).|http://This message has been edited by jura (edited Mar-16-2007).]

  • Tetsujin30 Legend 945 posts since
    Jan 1, 2006
  • Holly S. Legend 1,828 posts since
    Nov 26, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    41. Mar 17, 2007 4:05 AM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    I am comforted by the fact that I have much more of a chance of being struck by lightning (1/5000) than in dying of a heart attack in my upcoming marathon (1/50,000).  However, being a worrier, I still spent some time lying awake thinking, "What would happen if I died of a heart attack at the race?"  Of coures, my worrisome mind went through the whole thought process about my poor husband, who has NO patience with our small children, being left to raise them on their own, etc., and I wondered if it was selfish of me to needlessly expose myself to extra risk like this when I have young children yet to raise.  You know the circles your mind can go in.

    So, here's my question: Other than 1) sudden, severe chest pain, or 2) pain that runs from my sternum to jaws, or 3) elephant sitting on my chest feeling, what would be the signs to look for that would tell me, stop running and seek medical attention? I will be wearing my HRM, but what would my heart do if I was having a heart attack? Would my HR peak really high? I noticed on my 22-miler that my HR really wasn't that high in the last few miles. My legs seem to tire out way before my heart does.

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    Holly[/URL" target="_blank">

  • bigapplepie Legend 2,455 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    42. Mar 17, 2007 4:31 AM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    There are worse things to worry about than collapsing in front of thousands of people with trained medical staff on hand and your name and address pinned to your shirt.
    If I collapsed in my apartment typing this it would be Tuesday, when my cleaner comes, before anyone noticed.
    If you're gonna go, your gonna go.

  • roy c Legend 452 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    43. Mar 17, 2007 5:32 AM (in response to dtoce)
    Re: Marathon running/heart damage...

    I remember first reading articles about people dying while running and it use to freak me out.  I use to be awake worrying talking to friends and family thought of giving up running etc.  The state I was in before running there is just no comparison.  The reason my wife reckons she took up running is because I was looking so well with it.  I now think there is probably more chance of me doing damage to my health not running than running.  The longest run I have done is 18 mile and I felt ok People in run ups to marathons do longer runs in training and are usually well prepared as opposed to shocking their body with a sudden rise in mileage.  The benfits of distance running out weights the low risk in my book.
    This has been a great and interesting thread. I can now read and learn without the irrational fears.
    Roy

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