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Click to view mainerunnah's profile Legend 902 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
120. Jul 8, 2007 11:05 AM in response to: fredurie
Great run ksrunr, congratulations on that time and AG placement. I can't wait to read the report as well.

Sunday - Light Rain, 65 Degrees & Humid

The three of us that are running the NY Marathon in the fall have started doing at the very least our long runs together and today was an easy one on tired legs for all of us:
12.03 miles - 1:40-44 - (8:22)

Our plans are really starting to come together as our accomodations fell into place on our run with Joan Benoit. As we were discussing her run with Lance last year, Brian C. who is the Managing Director of Corporate Marketing for NASCAR happened to mention that he would be out of town for several weekends including the week of the marathon and we were welcomed to stay in his place. We couldn't believe our good fortune and gladly accepted of course. His place is on the 36th floor of the Park Avenue Tower, sleeps 6 and isn't too far from the finish, how cool is that!



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"Keep on Running"
Bob
Click to view JPGarland's profile Legend 780 posts since
Dec 7, 2007
121. Jul 8, 2007 12:41 PM in response to: fredurie
Bob,

I love Joanie, but it's her "illegal run with Lance last year." I could have used a pacer too. (Yeah, I still beat him.) Nice get on the place on Park Avenue. At season's end, the drivers who make it to the NASCAR Chase do a parade in Manhattan. They close off the streets (briefly). Not too fast, but they are LOUD. I caught it last year on the way to the office. It's one of those cool little things you see in New York. People line the street and ask "what's going on." Motorcycle cops come through followed by cars and then you hear the rumble off the buildings. Cars are placed during the week at various locations.

Anyway, some runs turn into grinds, and today was one. It was over 80, but cooler in the shade of the trail. I was a bit tired from yesterday's 13.5 and only felt comfortable late in today's 5.5 miler, although I was going at a pretty pedestrian pace. Strangely, didn't run into any runners this morning (perhaps I was late getting out), but had to pass a group of 5 horses. With riders.
Click to view Spareribs823's profile Legend 1,859 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
122. Jul 8, 2007 12:57 PM in response to: fredurie
Joe, you made the point the other day about not being comfortable at the pace your group runs at, even though it is slower than your regular pace. That is probably the reason. They are faster than your slow pace, but slower than your easy pace, and it's a gait that isn't natural for you. This happens to me from time to time when I run with a group. They are either too fast or too slow. I choose the ones that are too fast because that is a better quality workout for me.

Every day in every way I am getting better and better! I figured that if I can't run well, I might as well run when it's hottest, so I went to the park late today when it was already sunny and in the 90's. 3.3 miles brisk walk and 3.3 miles slow jog. But the good news is that on the jog I felt only mild discomfort, and certainly no pain. This is a big sign for me. I refuse to get discouraged over this stuff and tell myself maybe I just needed a break.

Going out for Indian food tonight so I can eat lamb vindaloo (must remember to bring my sweatband).

Bob, that is so cool about your NY Marathon lodging! Spareribs
Click to view glidegal's profile Legend 506 posts since
Mar 7, 2005
123. Jul 8, 2007 12:59 PM in response to: fredurie
3.7 easy paced miles today. felt fine. Bob, nice crib for the marathon--if you don't get that 6th person, I'll come do a marathon shop and cheer you on at the end. You live in my Dad's old summer stomping grounds...(he was from Brookline). They spent summers on OOB. When I was a kid we'd go to my uncle's old farmhouse right down from llbean's. Your threads bring back fond memories of his stories... and saltwater taffy. glidegal
Click to view ksrunr's profile Legend 1,036 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
124. Jul 8, 2007 1:58 PM in response to: fredurie
jp - thansk for the link; haven't found it quite yet.

Ribs - day off today and not racing again till either early or late Sept. I want one more good crack at a 5K master's pr which currently stands at 18:49. That was a couple years ago in perfect conditions.

Thanks for the kudos on my racing. I posted the last race under "Megans Lighthouse 5K'

Rest day today and then start uping the mileage for strenth including surges, hills, some fartleks and etc. Hope to be back up to 60 mpw soon.

have a good day all,
ksrunr
Click to view Rich in NH's profile Legend 549 posts since
Dec 10, 2007
125. Jul 8, 2007 2:56 PM in response to: fredurie
Click to view Head Band Bill's profile Legend 805 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
127. Jul 8, 2007 4:11 PM in response to: fredurie
I must have forgot to turn off my Garmin yesterday because it had no power when I turned it on. So my run today was Garmin-less and totally by feel.

So I took a known route and ran 17 miles in who-knows-what time at who-knows-what HR. I kept it slow and easy so probably somewhere around 9:45 to 10:00 avg pace.

Whatever. 57 miles for the week. 1 down, 17 to go.

I have a recovery pace, where I keep the HR in the 130s. I have an easy pace where I try to keep things at 141 or less. Of course on LR's and such the HR creeps above that. But for the majority of the LR miles I target 141.

Any pace between where the HR is between 142 and 154 is verboten. 154 is tempo pace and above that is hard stuff.

Bill

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Click to view JPGarland's profile Legend 780 posts since
Dec 7, 2007
128. Jul 8, 2007 4:13 PM in response to: fredurie
quote:<HR>Originally posted by breger1:
I must have forgot to turn off my Garmin yesterday because it had no power when I turned it on. So my run today was Garmin-less and totally by feel.<HR>

You get sucked into the Garmin world and they won't let you out. I don't know how we ran before there were Casios.
Click to view Jim24315's profile Legend 1,988 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
129. Jul 8, 2007 10:27 PM in response to: fredurie
I usually only wear my Garmin now to get an approximate distance on new running routes.

Saturday - 10 miles (4 in am + 6 in pm)
Last night I went to all comers meet but turned around and drove to my regular track when hardly anyone showed. I did 4 x 800 at 3:05 with 400 jog, then 2 x 200 at 42 with 200 jog. This was tough for me, but I was able to maintain pace without struggling too much.

Sunday - 12 miles slow/easy on grass loop. Started to tire last couple miles. One of the things I really like about the grass is that I don't hear the "clomp, clomp" of my feet pounding the ground when I get tired.
Click to view Spareribs823's profile Legend 1,859 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
130. Jul 9, 2007 8:24 AM in response to: fredurie
I got so tired on the daily, of explaining to people that when they run a certified course and the Garmin says something else, they should trust the course and not the Garmin. But just about everyone swears by the Garmin no matter what you say. They say, "oh but the software is newer..." and so on. Following is a post from a guy who made such a cogent explanation here, that I saved it, and I send it to anyone who gives me that Garmin nonsense:

"In my boring real life I have a small land surveying practice and have used GPS technology on a regular basis for the last 12 years or so. With GPS, the effective way to measure accurate distances is to use multiple GPS receivers simultaneously and then process the resulting vectors using some high dollar software or even higher dollar "real time" equipment. (The other way is to use one receiver and let it collect data for 23 hours and 56 minutes at each location.)

Obviously this doesn't work for running. I don't have a Garmin and have only seen one at a distance, but I would find it hard to believe that something in the price range of $300 that you wear on your wrist would have the capability to process more than 8 satellites and probably only the P1 signal of those 8. (For the record the US has 24 GPS satellites in 6 orbits of 4 satellites spaced roughly 90° apart. The USSR's version is called GLONASS, while the European Union has navigational satellites as well. I don't remember what they're called.) These US satellites are not fixed, like communication and TV, and their positions change constantly.
One thing I've never seen in a running forum discussion of GPS is "satellite geometry". In reality, in any given 24 hour period, there may be 4 or 5 hours where maximum satellites are spread out over the entire sky, instead of either clustered to one part of the sky or minimum satellites are visible. When tree canopy or urban canyons are thrown into the mix the signal degrades that much more. Surveyors such as myself when planning GPS work, use an almanac or ephemeris, which we download from GPS receivers, to find the optimum time to work. I looked on google, hoping to find a link I could share here, but was unsuccessful.
Basically, if you ever have the chance to use a GPS almanac or ephemeris, you'd have to enter the appx latitude, longitude, and elevation of your location and you would be told the optimum time of day or night for GPS usage. If the data is provided in a graphic form, you want PDOP (positional dilution of precision) to be as low as possible, definitely under 4, and you want the maximum number of satellites available. Right now in southern Oregon, the optimum time is roughly from noon to 3PM local.
Even with the sophisticated equipment we use, I regularly find unadjusted positional data from any single receiver to be at least 50 to 150 feet off, and this is with a 15 minute observation. When you multiply this by 2 (starting and finishing), you can see it's easy to be off 100 to 300 feet when attempting to measure the distance you just ran, be it one mile or 26. But hey, before the US government turned off selective availability in 2000, that 50 to 150 feet was 300 to 500 feet.
Bottom line, it's a neat tool, but it has limits. For myself, I run the same routes and don't much care whether my 10 miler is 9.8 or 10.2 and when I'm in a strange area, I run for time."

BTW, I have a Garmin and use it primarily for running routes that are unfamiliar to me, such as when I travel. The rest of the time, my Timex tri watch is just fine. I can't imagine wearing a Garmin in a race.

Spareribs
Click to view Head Band Bill's profile Legend 805 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
131. Jul 9, 2007 8:32 AM in response to: fredurie
Spareribs,

First my sincerest apologies for writing this "I must have forgot to turn off my Garmin ...". Obviously it should have been "forgotten". That must have had you grinding your teeth. But I digress ...

I am not one of those who trusts the Garmin over the Course. Obviously, unless you can run every turn tangent and run straight as an arrow otherwise, you'll always clock more on the Garmin/Polar/Casio than what is actual for the Course. That's only logical.

Bill

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Click to view Jim24315's profile Legend 1,988 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
132. Jul 9, 2007 8:46 AM in response to: fredurie
Garmin measures the track long too, even if you run on inside lane for 20 laps as I have.

A handy gadget, but completely unrelialbe for accurate pacing, where even 3 or 4 seconds a mile can make a huge difference over the course of a race. Garmin is often off more than that.
Click to view JPGarland's profile Legend 780 posts since
Dec 7, 2007
133. Jul 9, 2007 9:12 AM in response to: fredurie
On a 400 meter track, my Garmin is about 75 meters short, i.e., it records a mile too early. But I understand that its inaccuracy is much greater on a track. So it's not much use on a track.

I use it alot elsewhere, including on difficult to measure trails. I come up with distances to the hundredth of a mile, but I take that with a grain of salt. If it's a little off, it's close enough in terms of what my pace is. It's also very good for a non-track Tempo run when you're trying to keep a certain pace.

I used it in one race when I was trying to hold a certain pace and was not confident about the mile markers, and it gave me a 9.4 on a 9.3 mile course (a 15K). I will also use it this year on my relay legs because there you have no idea of what your pace is.

It's just a tool. I love playing with the data, such as getting pace per quarter mile, and the pictures.
Click to view ksrunr's profile Legend 1,036 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
134. Jul 9, 2007 9:37 AM in response to: fredurie
Not all garmins measure the same either. My wife and a friend ran the 4 mile race 4th of July and they ea. measured 4 mile exactly. Mine measured 4.08. I always understand we need to compensate but these are great tools and fun to play with. I use mine to measure new routes and then as a comparison of times between known routes. Mine really acted up on the 4 mile race. Mile 1 timed 5:03, miles 2,3 @ 6:24,25, and mile 4 @ about 7:35. I can't run a 5:03 anymore and I know the last mile was wrong. The two middle were probably pretty close and the time was exact with the RD timer. Who knows?

Good to be back on a regular week schedule again. No races for about 6-8 weeks. Going to build up some strength and base again. 5.75 miles with no watch. Not hard, not easy. Get a few more tonight with the Mrs.

ksrunr