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25 Replies Last post: Sep 26, 2007 10:59 PM by Bugmenot043   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view payne003's profile Rookie 5 posts since
Aug 23, 2007
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Aug 23, 2007 11:53 PM

Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers

Hey, I'm a high school coach and I coach a (mostly) great group of kids. It's great watching the kids improve. However, I have a problem and I'm hoping that you guys could help me understand how the kids are feeling, since you're the same general age. Some of the kids (mostly 9th/10th graders) really slack off. Their attitude is completely "cool and laid back", and I've heard from people that they've tried to cut runs. I don't have definite proof, but I wouldn't doubt it, and I just don't want to accost them yet. These guys also regularly ditched practice during track season, but unfortunately we didn't have an attendance sheet yet to keep track of this (I know this was stupid of me). The thing is, these guys are actually fairly fast. Most, if not all of them run early 5 minute miles, or late 4 minute miles. I don't really want to show favoritism or anything, but the thing is, kicking these kids off the team would really hurt that group. If I did do that, I might be looked on as a bad coach for kicking some of the good runners off the team. I want to have a discussion with them, but I wouldn't be surprised if they just blew me off. Any ideas you guys?
Click to view Bugmenot043's profile Legend 355 posts since
Nov 29, 2006
1. Aug 23, 2007 11:55 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
i kinda sympathize wit u. its not ur fault that ur best runners are goofballs who dont take the sport serious. i suggest u have a talk with them, and if they still continue it, u might have no choice to kick them off the team. even if ppl call u a bad coach, u can tell them why u did it. its more important to have good sportsmanship on the team than fast runers who think theyre "too cool" for the runs
Click to view RunXC10's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Aug 24, 2007
3. Aug 24, 2007 12:51 AM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
Have you tried to talk to them about why they are "cool and laid back", as you put it?

Maybe they are serious runners who want to contribute to the team, but don't feel like you, the coach, are asking them to invest their time or energy in the most effective workouts.

Sure, you are the coach, and you should get to determine what the workouts are. But since it seems like your best runners aren't responding well to your coaching style, maybe it's time to switch it up.

Rather than kicking them off the team, which will hurt everyone, find out why they have this attitude which you are perceiving. If you still think that they are demonstrating a disrespect for the team and the sport, then take whatever measures you need to. But if it's really just a discontentment with the workouts you've chosen, that has developed into this habit of questioning your authority or "slacking off", then maybe you should change your style.



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Click to view bbowerman5k's profile Rookie 6 posts since
Aug 24, 2007
4. Aug 24, 2007 12:57 AM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
To Payne:
I find that with most freshmen/sophomore athletes, the attitudes really reflect how they feel about the sport. That usually stems from how happy they are or how motivated they are. I think that maybe their poor attitude towards practices and the lack of seriousness could signal that you may not be doing the correct workouts (maybe too hard too early in the season, or too much speed and not enough hills for base)? I'm not sure how you like to run your program, or if you even have access to hills and parks or if you must run roads all the time, but in my years of experience (and I have almost two score years) my high school athletes have run their best after mostly hill training and a fun atmosphere. Let college coaches work them really hard and really fast. High school is really more focused on having fun and there are many ways to make good quality workouts fun. Sometimes my kids like to do loops on mild hilly areas without too much harsh downhill. Antoher workout my kids have really seemed to like is where we do runs over the ridge to the valley behind our school. I'm not trying to change your coaching philosphy, I'm just giving you advice from an experienced varsity level runner.
Click to view 5kspeedstar's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Aug 24, 2007
5. Aug 24, 2007 1:21 AM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
I agree that sometimes kids arnt that serious about running. But most of the times it isnt their fault. If the running is boring and tedious, they naturally will be bored. Workouts must be made interesting. No one wants to do the same workout every single day.

I coach a cross country and track team down in Southern California and many of my kids are serious about their running. I would classify them as inspired. It is important to keep this level of inpiration up in order to keep the level of seriousness up. Tell them a personal experience. Tell them about a miracle. They need to respect you as a coach in order to take your discussion seriously.

You need to talk with each runner on a personal level in order for them to respect you. Know every runners name. Encourage them during races. Be a mentor to each and every runner on the team. Dont talk numbers to them (for example, their times during practice or after a race), talk about their effort and get them to agree to put in their best effort. But the most important advice I want to give to you is to make sure they want to run. Do this however way you wish but you must make sure this gets done. One way of doing this is to go directly to the source and ask your runners exactly what they're missing.

Everyone can be passionate and serious about running. It's not your runners fault that they arent intersted.
Click to view ilikerunningchicks's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Aug 24, 2007
6. Aug 24, 2007 2:24 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
Running is supposed to be fun. Fine, it's painful sometimes, but most of the time people go to track or cross country practice because they look forward to it and they want to do it. These people that you are concerned about, the ones who are ?slacking off?, probably aren?t excited to run every day. They might think it's just another boring class period which just involves moving their legs. Maybe they are only doing it because their friends are there or their parents want their college applications to look good. I don?t know how you manage your program, but maybe the negative response is because practice is very boring, and tedious.
Sure, you would say there are things that you just have to do; and you are right. Take for example, track work outs. You just can't succeed without them sometimes, but there are work outs that can replace that half of the time. Some fartlek or Indian files are good alternatives.
You might take heed to what your runners want. Don?t listen to every single one of them; just the serious athletes that are passionate about their running and do it not because of how good of a program it is, but how much they like to run.
Also, making yourself sound serious is very important. If you want your athletes to respect you as a coach (as 5kspeedstar mentioned), it is necessary to sound serious and confident. The kids might be laid back because you are laid back. They might treat the sport as a joke if you don?t make it sound serious enough.
Cross country isn't about the times or improvements, placing or rankings. Running is not a class where you are measured by grades. Cross country is a mental and physical sport. Your runners should be valued by their efforts only; not on times. How they place is another story. If you truly convey the meaning of cross country to your laid back kids, they should begin to feel what serious runners feel every time they run, and will be committed and try their hardest, regardless of the place or time. That said, every runner on the team is a valuable runner. A Junior Varsity runner is just as important as you number one Varsity runner. As a slow JV guy in high school, I saw that my coach talked to my JV teammates and myself more than the Varsity team sometimes. One time, the Varsity team and JV were in two different meets. My coach even sacrificied the important Varsity meet to come to our JV meet. His actions made everyone on the team respect him because they knew he cared about every runner. Those laid back kids might feel that you dont really care about them. They feel that it's not worth trying that much harder for you.

Good luck with your team and have a great season.
Click to view Bugmenot043's profile Legend 355 posts since
Nov 29, 2006
8. Aug 24, 2007 4:25 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
wut makes u think u kno some of these ppl in person? well u said ur varying routes which is good. also, do u kno the names of everyone on the team/make an effort to learn them? well im pretty sure on every team, u get some people who just slack off or think they are "too cool" the thing that matters is tryin to change that attitude as early as possible. at least they r out there doing it rite? but if they do have a bad "cut runs, ditch practice" type of attitude, i think the team would be a lot better without them. in my high school, when we got kids like that, they just ruin the practice for evryone else wit their "im too cool" type of things. if uve heard about them doing this kind of stuff, u should try asking the rest of the team (individually mayb) if it bothers them, the ppl who work hard.
Click to view alexanderthegr8042's profile Legend 1,229 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
9. Aug 24, 2007 5:18 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
Holy moley this is the thread of the long posts. You should know I don't have the attention span to read all that stuff.
Click to view newenglandfan08's profile Legend 462 posts since
Apr 23, 2006
11. Aug 24, 2007 7:28 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
thats why temas have captins to inforce when kids dont run

you dont need an attendence sheet, if they dont show up the next day or miss a workout make them run harder to show them that they cant not take it off just because they want to.

They cut off during runs, run with them or if you can go do a little surpise check once and a while
Click to view CippyCup's profile Legend 448 posts since
Aug 21, 2006
12. Aug 24, 2007 9:56 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
We have one or 2 people like this. They stop in the middle of the woods. The varsity runners tell people they should be running if they catch people not running. One time we were running and we thought we saw a person not running. So one of the runners yelled "GOTCHA (name which will not be released) you slacker". The person turns around and its our coach (who doesn't run with us due to injuries and whatnot). He was clearing the bushes out of the way because we were running our 5k course and it had been raining there alot. So the runner said "Oops, sorry I thought you were (person who's name will not be released)". Thats my story hoped you liked it.
Click to view theworkinprogressgirl's profile Pro 164 posts since
Feb 19, 2007
13. Aug 26, 2007 2:13 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
We have a few people that are sometimes like that on our team. Our school is small so we have pretty slim pickins' as far as runners go ---- we take whatever we get and do the best we can. Usually when those runners want to take shortcuts or whatever it is because the practice is too hard too early in the season. Our coach is very personable and always asks if we are feeling okay before our runs. If someone's hurting he tries to help them stretch it out, and if that doesn't work then he will give that person an easier practice. No one cuts runs anymore because we all respect him, not just as a coach but also as a person. Our coach in junior high was very different. He was not encouraging at all and sometimes got downright mean at the meets. That kind of thing is especially bad for runners who are 11 years old and have never run before. If you can get these 'too cool' kids to respect you that might help. I don't know if that's what the problem is or what. Don't spend a lot of time blaming yourself, it won't get you anywhere.
Click to view kirby111's profile Legend 408 posts since
Sep 22, 2007
14. Aug 26, 2007 4:47 PM in response to: payne003
Re: Having Trouble with Some of My High Schoolers
I think if your runners have times under 5 minutes then they definitely care to some degree about running even if they don't admit it. Scaring them a little by pretending to cut them or confront them while acting pretty mad or something may get them to back down and fall in line but then again it could just cause them to quit.