Marathon Question ...

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7 Replies Last post: Jul 27, 2007 1:54 PM by kcwoodhead

kcwoodhead

355 posts since
Oct 18, 2007

Dec 25, 2007 3:58 PM

Marathon Question

Burning question: is is just supposed to hurt from mile 1?

Now, I'll go back and give my reason for asking that question: I'm slow. My marathon PR is 5:12 and I've run 5 (5:12, 5:16, 5:21, 5:22, 5:55).

Recently, my little group has tried to be more in-tune with our long run pace. Everything you read says you should run .5-1.5 min/mile slower than your goal marathon pace. My goal is 5 hours...always has been. That is a 11:27min/mile pace. I feel like 13:00 min/mile is way too slow and wonder how in the world I could train at 13 and race at 11:27. We usually average between 11:30-12:00 for out long runs, usually closer to the 12:00 average. I also do a 9/1 run/walk (run 9 minutes, walk 1).

So, say I keep training at that same pace, when I show up at the start line of Chicago in 2 months, do I automatically have to start slightly out of my comfort zone and just hope I stay there? This is a new concept to me, and it has just recently dawned on me that faster runners really have to step out of their comfort zone from the start (i.e. someone whose goal pace is 7:00 min/mile who has been training at 7.5-9 min/mile will no doubt not be in their comfort zone running 7 min/mile).

Also, I have read that it isn't your long run that makes you faster, but your speed work and tempo runs and stuff like that. What does everyone feel about that? I just finished a weekly track circuit and I will do hills for the next 5 weeks, then back to track for about 4 more weeks.

Sorry this is so long - I guess I'm just lost and really want to figure how to get under that magical 5 hour mark that has eluded me for so long!

http://This message has been edited by kcwoodhead (edited Jul-27-2007).

kcwoodhead

355 posts since
Oct 18, 2007

1. Jul 27, 2007 11:16 AM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

For a little more history/info, something just seems to happen to me between the 16 and 26 mile mark, both during training and the marathon (i.e. during the few months between my ~16 mile run and the race, and then during those miles in the race). Last year I ran a 2:50:00 25k. That is the predicted 25k time for a 4:57 marathon on the McMillian calculator. Then I ran a 5:12 in Houston 2 months later. Oddly, 2 years earlier, I ran a 2:45 in the same 25k and a 5:22 marathon (again 2 months apart). So, there is kind of a pattern there.

This year will be different because I'm running Chicago and don't have any longer "predictor" races leading into it. I'm doing a 1/2 ironman, a 101, and a 50k trail race in the time between Chicago (Oct 7) and Houston (Jan 13), so I'm not sure I'll get any more predictor races again.

Sorry for all the rambling!! I'm thinking outloud.

jroden

1,683 posts since
Dec 11, 2007

2. Jul 27, 2007 11:27 AM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

I think at your pace you have a different set of rules of thumb regarding pace. You need to go out and run for a few hours in training to get your body used to switching over to fat metabolism and cause the adaptation required for long bouts of running. I'd think a 13 minute mile is a pace where you might be almost walking, so that wouldn't make a lot of sense.

In the final analysis, you might be better off spending some time after your marathon working on a progression to gain speed over shorter distance races, say 5 milers and after a year or so you would have the speed to get the marathon training done more efficiently. I don't think your terminal goal is getting good at running 5 hour marathons, but rather getting good at running and stepping up to the marathon from time to time, but that's just a guess on my part.

kristine25

632 posts since
Aug 17, 2007

3. Jul 27, 2007 11:32 AM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

KC;

I just posted a similar question (pace of long runs) today and have got some great responses. You should take a look at it. I will say that over the last 6 months I have incorporated speed work in my training in getting prepared for HIM and it has made a HUGE difference in my race times, but I can only gague 5k's really since it's been all sprint tri's. But my HIM run time was great too, just 10 minutes slower than my stand alone HM so I definilty think the speed work has made me faster.

DONSKIMAN

277 posts since
Nov 25, 2007

4. Jul 27, 2007 11:35 AM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

No, it's not supposed to hurt from mile 1.

It looks like you need to add some goal pace running within your long runs. Maybe something like this. 16 mile run with the first three at 1:00 over goal pace, then next 10 at goal pace, then the last 3 at 1:00 over. Other methods are to run the last 1/3 of your long runs at goal pace.

Your run/walk method may also be a problem because it forces you to run faster than goal pace, then take a minute for recovery. That may not be enough recovery for the harder running and over 26.2 miles you are forced to slow down to compensate. It might be more effective to run at a pace you can maintain without the need for walk breaks.

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kcwoodhead

355 posts since
Oct 18, 2007

5. Jul 27, 2007 11:54 AM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

quote:<HR>Originally posted by kristine25:
KC;

I just posted a similar question (pace of long runs) today and have got some great responses. You should take a look at it. I will say that over the last 6 months I have incorporated speed work in my training in getting prepared for HIM and it has made a HUGE difference in my race times, but I can only gague 5k's really since it's been all sprint tri's. But my HIM run time was great too, just 10 minutes slower than my stand alone HM so I definilty think the speed work has made me faster. <HR>

I think that may be helping me too. My sprint tri runs are all 1:00+ min/mile faster this year than last. I've been doing good speed workouts on and off since January as well. It is just hard to tell where I am now 1. because of the horrible heat and 2. because I haven't done any plain running races, especially longer ones, to guage where I am. In TX we just don't have those types of things in the summer! Chicago will be my first road race in 8-9 months. I have faith that I have already done things different this year, so maybe things will work out. I guess it is just hard to know for sure right now!

kristine25

632 posts since
Aug 17, 2007

6. Jul 27, 2007 11:58 AM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

KC;

Don't forget all that IM training is sure to have a HUGE impact on our standalone. Remember, you are IRONMAN!!!

kcwoodhead

355 posts since
Oct 18, 2007

7. Jul 27, 2007 1:54 PM

in response to: kcwoodhead

Re: Marathon Question

Thanks for all the advice so far! I've been reading a good bit about doing the marathon pace during your long run and hopefully I'll get the chance to try that out on a few of my longer runs.

Any other advice/opinions/personal stories are welcome!

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Dec 25, 2007 3:58 PM

Marathon Question

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