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Click to view jameson mccallum's profile Rookie 5 posts since
Sep 24, 2007

Sep 24, 2007 11:43 PM

can i do this if i cant really swim?

hi,

i'm getting into triathlon training. i wanna do an olympic distance race in the spring. i assume yesterday is a good time to start training, right? i run about 8 minute miles. i'm an average amateur cyclist, i've certainly done some long and grueling rides. but i can't really swim more than five minutes without feeling dead.

for someone in my position, is it really realistic i can do a triathlon in april or may? it's hard to train in nyc winters!

i run three days a week, lift some weights for core strength, and ride my bike on the weekends. anyone else in this relative position had any success?

thanks.
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Click to view Anthony_All3's profile Community Moderator 238 posts since
Aug 8, 2007
1. Sep 25, 2007 5:43 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?

jameson mccallum,


Congratulations on deciding to train for your first tri, I think you will love it. It sounds like you have a pretty good base built up as far as running and cycling goes. An olympic distance is a very challenging distance and will require some serious training for the swim portion based on your experience level for swimming. 5 minutes is not bad, its a good start. I recommend you start out with some easy form work/drills and slowly build up your swim endurance. 5 minutes I am guessing you are swimming roughly 6-10 lengths of a 25m pool right? A good starting point to begin to build endurance would be 200m. I can outline a basic training plan that will get you started and then based on your progress you can start to develop your race endurance/speed. Before you begin make sure you have access to or purchase a kick board and a pull bouy(a flotation device placed between legs to help you maintain a level position in the water), a pull bouy will aid you in your form work regarding body position, but more importantly breathing technique. A tennis ball will come in handy too. Remember that an adequate warm-up is required for all sets along with a cool down.

Week1

Workout1 - 200m easy( you should not be dead upon completion)

Workout2 - 6 x 25m from work, using pull bouy and tennis ball. Place the tennis ball under your chin and swim 25m while trying to keep it there. Note: you will want to turn your head to the side to breath while slightly rolling you whole body, try not to look forward to breath as this will(when not using the pull bouy) make you lower half sink and create drag, reducing efficiency. 2 x 25m kicking Note: when kicking try to point your toes away from your body while maintaining a slight bend in the knee when kicking, power should be coming from the hips.


Week2

Workout1 - 300m easy

Workout2 - 8 x 25m(form); 3 x 25m(kick)


Week3

Workout1 - 400m easy

Workout2 - 10 x 25m(same as above); 4 x 25m(kick)


Week4(recovery)

Workout1 - 200m easy(this workout should be a piece of cake by now)

Workout2 - 6 x 25m(same as above); 2 x 25m(kick)


Week5 - 500m easy.....you get the idea, let me know if you have any questions regarding training, form, or technique, I have been swimming for well over 20 years now and would love to help in any way I can. Note: breathing technique is the first step, there is much more to swimming than this, when you feel you have mastered this technique, you can go further, improving on your stroke and kick, then eventually putting it all together, lastly, tri specific/open water training techniques and race tips. Good luck and train safe!


-Anthony

Click to view niemsco's profile Community Moderator 162 posts since
Sep 24, 2007
2. Sep 25, 2007 6:02 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?

Sure you can do it. I wasn't a swimmer until earlier this year and have done several triathlons this year, and one IM. You just need to put in the time. However my suggestion is that swimming is more on technique than volume. Its not like biking where more is better. If you go to the pool every day and just swim dragging your butt through the water, you will never improve. I've heard many coaches say if you are not swimming with good technique stop swimming, there is no point, but start drilling. If you are tired after swimming 200 meters, then its probably form not endurance.

You need to do a lot of side swimming. Swimming on your side with good balance meaning you are streamlined and your arm facing the ceiling is completely out of the water. If you can do several lengths of side swimming with the leading arm out, then at your side, then swimming is so much easier, plus you are learning to kick streamlined and building endurance without even knowing it. Also breathing issues are usually a matter of not swimming tall and relaxed. You should check this out: http://www.totalimmersion.net/2005articles/february/breathing.html

Good luck!


Click to view ltubound's profile Community Moderator 93 posts since
Aug 20, 2007
3. Sep 25, 2007 6:30 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?

If you'd like to do an olympic tri in the spring, I would first look at doing a sprint Tri prior to the olympic. Not being a very confident swimmer (yet) and the fun (sarcasm) of open water swimming for the first time may be a bit much. Since you have nice warm winters (again, sarcasm) in NY you should be able to find a heated pool to train in to build some endurance and confidence in the water. Look up Anthony's post for the open water swim too it has some good tips there. His swim sets are a pretty good start, when you "graduate" from those you can step up endurance swims and intensity levels. I think you could do an olympic, but I think the shorter distance sprint may be a better start to the season for you.
Click to view ScottCross's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Sep 27, 2007
5. Sep 27, 2007 7:36 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?

I haven't done any organized swimming in many years, and even in my youth, the swim team mentality was swim as fast as you can for 50...since that was the max distance for kids my age. I never really focused on the fundamentals. Like you, swimming for several minutes exhausts me.

Currently, I am taking a swim stroke class through my local masters swim team to learn how to swim, the right way. Once I am done with it, I may take an endurance swim class or two over the winter. I briefly scanned the other posts and saw someone mentioned Total Immersion, and from what I have heard, their TI weekends are very good. I am currently reading the TI book for Triathletes, and it is a good book. I also purchased the video to be able to visualize their drills.

Like anything, it takes practice time to build up one's endurance for any event. Get wet!

Click to view itri's profile Expert 48 posts since
Sep 13, 2007
6. Sep 28, 2007 9:17 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?
I remember signing up for St. Anthony's olympic distance triathlon through TNT. I had never done a triathlon before, was a good cyclist, average runner. But I literally had never had any swimming lessons. Sure, when I was a kid at the YMCA. You couldn't drowned me, but I had nothing resembling a crawl /freestyle stroke. I had decent training in all three sports with TNT, including swimming, but with minimal stroke analysis. Short version of the story, Tampa Bay looked like the ocean race morning and I 'made it' through. I was hooked on triathlon but dreaded the swim. The most recent post is very accurate, technique is very important. Not that you have to be obsessed with it. Doing some basic drills will set you off on a good foundation from the beggining. It becomes so much easier. Total immersion is perfect for beginners and gives you some simple basics to start with all the way up to advanced concepts. You will progress much faster with this approach rather than going down to the pool and engraining the wrong technique. You can definitely do it. While I will never be the first one out of the water, I no longer dread this part of the race and don't lose alot of time to my buddies who are 'swimmers', at least not so much that I cant make it up on the bike : )
Click to view Holyroller's profile Rookie 4 posts since
Sep 5, 2007
7. Oct 1, 2007 9:46 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?

The one thing that I would warn against is taking the swim too lightly. I just finished me first tri last month and while I had an absolute blast, my swim was semi disasterous. I had only been devoting one day a week to the pool and didn't do any open water training at all. I considered myself a pretty decent swimmer. I would usually do 2 400m 'reps" that I could finish in about 9:00. I tried to minimize pushing off after each length of the pool, knowing that I wouldn't have that luxury in the lake and I figured that I had swam as a younger man in lakes while water skiing so I would be fine.

I arrived the day before the race to get my packet and the 200m bouy that was the turn around for the swim looked about 6 miles away. A big mistake was not getting in the water right then. I noticed some of the participants had brought their suits and were in the water getting used to the current, temperature etc. If the race will allow you to do this, I would highly recommend it. I got there early the day of and after setting my gear, tried to get in and get acclimated to the water, but the combination of race day anxiety, and not enough time to really settle myself completely made it less helpful than I had hoped. The start was staged, 2 persons at a time, based on estimated swim times. The smartest thing that I did was turn in a time much slower than I thought I could do. I figured that turning in 15:00 would mean that I could pass people if I was swimming well rather than having people swimming up my rear end if I had difficulties.

To say the least, I had difficulties. After losing my breath due to a combination of the water temp and over exerting right off the bat, I ended up breast stroking the majority of the swim. Only problem, I hadn't trained at all on the breast stroke so those specific muscles fatigued really quickly. Once I got myself to the outside of the pack, I even backstroked a little to get my face completely out of the water and get my breathing under control. Basically I survived the swim but at 13:50 rather than the 10:00 I had hoped for. I had also sapped alot of the energy that I was hoping to use on the bike and run.

To sum up, if you prioritize your training to simply survive the swim, that's probably all you're going to do. Practice breast stroke, side stroke, treading water ect. to have those muscles in better shape in case traffic, rough water or just needing to settle yourself, causes you to need to use them. Exaust every possible avenue to get to train in open water before your event. I would not suggest doing so alone. Have someone with you or swim someplace with a lifeguard if possible.

While it may sound as if I had a pretty rough time, the triathalon was the single most fun experience I've ever had racing and I can't wait to do my next one. Even with the bad swim, I finished in 1:33.42 which I felt was pretty good for a first time 37 year old clydesdale. My ultimate goal is to do a half IM. Most of the experienced trithaletes that I have talked to suggest that I do a hand full of sprints next year and maybe an Olympic at the end of the season before training for the half in '09. Good luck to you, but be careful, you will probably get hooked.

Click to view jackrabbitt's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Nov 13, 2007
8. Nov 13, 2007 11:33 AM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?

the website www.totalimmersion.com is an eye opener. there is a right way and a wrong way to swim as I found out the hard way.

get yourself a swim coach. it's well worth it.


good luck.

Click to view 3critters's profile Amateur 19 posts since
Jul 9, 2007
9. Nov 13, 2007 9:58 PM in response to: jameson mccallum
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?
Like you I'm hooked on tri's and the board! so i'm going to put my 2cents in: OH, YES IT CAN BE DONE!!!! AND MORE QUICKLY THAN YOU THINK!!!!

As a competitive swimmer from age 4 and a USS swimmer from age 8, also after experiencing a very good friend of mine who can swim a basic stroke who wanted to do tri's: this is my advice (AFTER YOU HAVE ACCOMPLISHED THE PREVIOUS POSTINGS ADVICE and have become comfortable swimming a 1/2 mile without major struggles):

I advise you to work on "looking at where you are going": stick your head directly up out of the water ahead of you while you are swimming to see where you are going. It doesn't have to be very high, just enough to see ahead of you, not even high enough to take a breathe even (not that you couldn't do that). (This would be like one would do taking a breathe during breaststroke, only your doing the front crawl). Because if you can't see where you are going you will not swim straight. And zig-zagging, or worse swimming in circles (one arm is usually pulls stronger), will take much much longer and ware you down. Even popping your head up and looking where you are going you will still zig-zag a little bit but not nearly as much. I don't know any swimmer, even olympians who can swim completely straight in open water a long distance. So don't fret too much.

So, start out with at least one pop-up per length of the pool, or one every few lengths until you get to one a length. Once you get used to it you will figure out how much you will need to do it when in open water. It's kind of an as-needed thing, looking every few strokes will make your neck sore and slow you down too. so just as often as you feel comfortable when you do open swim (you will have to dodge other swimmers, etc.). Oh and if you are as unlucky as I was in my first race, on the way back swimming we were directly swimming into the morning sun. I couldn't see anything at all. So I had to look to the sides and I still got off course, thinking the furthest buoy marker was the one I needed to be near, only to find out (thankfully quickly) that it was the wrong buoy! But alas I still made it out 2nd or 3rd out of the water in my age group. So no worries!

So: after you get comfortable in the swimming then try to do the head pops, I wouldn't advise both at the same time, you need to learn proper stroke first. Worse case you can stop and tread water to see where you are going for your first tri. I even had to stop a few times swimming into the sun like I did. It's no big deal TONS of people do it. But the head pop thing is more effecient when you are at that stage.

Also I would do an open water swim at least once before you race, even if it's within a week of your event. Even if it's only a few yards. You just need to get used to the water buoyancy and the feeling of not being able to touch bottom and rest! I think you can rest on a boat for a second or two if needed; if nothing else you can stop and tread water for as long as needed to rest. Wetsuits do help with buoyancy. Make sure the water isn't too cold though. There will be volunteers in many boats along the course for any reason at all.

Actually I feel just as nervous about my run as you are in your swim. I have yet to run a straight 5 miles without walking even about 10 steps at least once mainly because I doubt myself having never been a runner, EVER! I had a skiing accident years ago when I was 13 and thought I would destroy my knees if I ever ran long distances (never did any running besides soccer before). I am now 35 and have to retrain myself to think differently as all is ok! Yes I realize that I could walk a whole race, and swimming is much more complicated, but the point is the same: some day you will soon swim like a shark, and some day I will soon run like a cheetah!!!!!!!

Tri's can definitely be complicated at first glance! But boy they are fun as **** !!!!!

Good luck and I hope that I was of some help! YOU CAN LEARN TO SWIM EFFICIENTLY IN TIME!!!!!! You will be so hooked after your first tri!

Click to view Active Sara's profile Active.com Staff 1,018 posts since
Oct 2, 2007
10. Mar 5, 2008 4:18 PM in response to: 3critters
Re: can i do this if i cant really swim?
I'm sure you'll be fine with the swimming and it looks like you have gotten some good advice. I wanted to pass along this video that gives some good advice about open water swimming from Dave Scott. Hope it helps!