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23 Replies Last post: Nov 21, 2007 2:29 PM by jroden   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view autoratrun's profile Amateur 29 posts since
Jul 28, 2006
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Nov 19, 2007 6:03 PM

First Ironman need help

My year plan looks like this 50k ultra in Feb and then IM wisconsin in september. I am currently training for the ultra with a modified marathon program. I plan on starting specific IM training in late Feb early March but I am not sure how to go about this. I am primarily a runner but I am also pretty quick in the water. My weakest part of Tri is the bike. So do you guys know of any good programs that emphasize the bike more than swim or run? I am really new to all this , any help would be really appreciated!
Click to view COcarrie's profile Legend 483 posts since
Oct 15, 2007
1. Nov 19, 2007 6:10 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
Just curious... the Ironman will be your first triathlon?
Click to view jgleduc's profile Rookie 7 posts since
Nov 27, 2003
3. Nov 19, 2007 7:01 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
Your best option is to get a sweet carbon tribike and throw some Zipps on that badboy.

Then even though you won't be much faster on the bike, when you are walking around transition before/after the race you will look like a superstar.....

thats what I am planning to do.

JL
Click to view ussoccer's profile Legend 1,748 posts since
Dec 11, 2007
4. Nov 19, 2007 7:24 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
I don't think we have enough information to give a good enough response, because the answer would depend on your background in cycling. You obviously have an immense fitness background, but if you have never cycled much, the suggested training might be a bit different. In other words -- and please know that I am no coach -- if you have little to zero experience on the bike, if I were your coach I'd have you out there trying to increase mileage and comfort on the bike. If you are comfortable with mid-range distance, then the plan would be very different -- such as intervals and, especially Wisconsin, plenty of hills, both rolling and steep climbs. The other thing depends on your goal... complete? compete? in between?
Click to view jroden's profile Legend 1,683 posts since
Dec 11, 2007
5. Nov 19, 2007 7:26 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
You have about 30 weeks, so assuming 5 week blocks (4 and 1 easier week) you would be able to do:

5 week strength building on the bike, heavy gear, low rpm's (once wk) tempo ride (once wk) 2-3 hour overdistance outside on one or both weekend days

10 week cycle that empasises building up your volume for weekend rides in addition to a solid tempo ride during the week and one day of longer submax intervals of 10-20 mins

5 week cycle that includes some racing and time tril efforts, work on race-specific form, work on aerodynamics and position and some shorter intervals of 5-10 minutes at a higher speed. total volume starts to dip here.

Continue racing and recovering through the later part of the summer with a long ride that incorportaes some blocks of uptempo but comfortable riding and and some shorter 5-10 minute intervals with full recovery at the highest speed yet.

That's what I'd do if I were getting ready for a fall race like that, the key is to walk up to the line without being sick or overtrained. You may not work well with this type of plan, but it's a framework for your own planning and thought.

Joe Friels book is a decent place to start also.
Click to view IrisMdsn's profile Expert 41 posts since
Oct 18, 2006
6. Nov 19, 2007 8:06 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
I did my first IM this year in Wisconsin....

My best advice = do hills, hills, and more hills!!

Good Luck!
Click to view scott30025's profile Expert 59 posts since
May 15, 2007
7. Nov 19, 2007 10:18 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
jrod, my A race is ironman in late August 2008, so you are saying I should be doing big gear low cadence work right now? what cadence? 70? im usually at 90, and this should be done once a week?
Click to view ussoccer's profile Legend 1,748 posts since
Dec 11, 2007
9. Nov 20, 2007 7:10 AM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
AutoDude,

In that case (re: your cycling background), I'd follow a version of what JRoden suggests. He's a resident pro cyclist -- or at least I think he is! -- and knows what he's talking about. Because of your lack of experience, I'd scale back a touch on what he said but basically train through the phases he suggests. You'll hurt for the first month or more, but then you'll really start to shine.

Good luck, man.
Click to view broadbill's profile Pro 156 posts since
Sep 27, 2004
10. Nov 20, 2007 7:43 AM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
I haven't been on the IMWI course, but I'm told it not the hills that kill you, its how you ride them. The people that go fast on that course know how to ride the hills, the people that crash and burn don't. From what I understand, it's not about fitness so much as bike handling skills. Maybe somebody with a little experience with the course could give you a little strategy.

Somebody who can push 20mph on the flats all day (your words) shouldn't have any trouble getting through the bike leg of an IM. The fact that you have had problems with getting through the IMWI bike course says something else it amiss here....

I would suggest a coach to help you get on track or at least reading up on some training plans. Jroden mentions Joe Friels book, I would suggest Gale Bernhardt's book for sample training plans.

This time of year is the perfect time to get on a trainer and get some leg strength and mental toughness to get ready for those long outside rides this spring.

good luck!
Click to view jroden's profile Legend 1,683 posts since
Dec 11, 2007
12. Nov 20, 2007 6:54 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
I can't comment as much on the "just want to finish" sort of program, but if you are looking at training for a 100+ mile bike leg, it's easy to say "well, I'll take take my marathon running program and quadruple it" which would be a mistake.

For a runner, the progression is generally toward higher mileage and longer runs, then a couple weeks of tapering. For a cyclist, the progression starts with a strength building phase, generally during the winter. Some people will hit the gym, I tend to just do some one the bike work. You are not really interested in builing your power or AT system, as you don't have to sprint like a bike racer.

Once the endurance base is in the bag, you are better served to work on riding fast for 20-60 minutes and really fast for 10 minutes, plus your weekly longer ride. If you are in good shape, it OK to do a little work on your long rides if you can take the extra load. When I was training for longer road races, I would do a race on saturday, then for sunday ride to a local race, race the event and ride home, for the bike two solid days stacked together is a fairly normal training tool--try it and see.

Look at it this way--to go fast on the bike you need to turn a big gear while holding your body in a compact position to reduce aerodynamic drag. Both of thee acts take strength, the former takes strength mixed with endurance, the ability to do work at a high % of your max HR without accumulating lactate.

Since your race will be hilly, you will do well to ride hills, learn the skills involed in getting over the top quickly and develop the ability to buffer a little lactate when clearing the top of the hill. Your practice at developing a good position on the bike will help yo carry the speed down the hills. Finally, gaining competence in riding around turns fast, riding in the rain and keeping your bike working and making roadside repairs will all hold you in good stead.

Just going out for long, aimless easy rides will help you, but only to a degree and not in a very time efficient manner. Doing endurance building on the trianer is not very worthwhile either, I'd use the trainer for some work around your AT and for building some muscle now, then in may you should be riding those 6 hour endurance rides outside, it will all work out ok.

people tend to look at what a pro bike racer does, but they are already racing in feb or march and gaining all the fitness through racing for days on end, it's hard to replicate that for a working person.
Click to view ussoccer's profile Legend 1,748 posts since
Dec 11, 2007
13. Nov 20, 2007 8:34 PM in response to: autoratrun
Re: First Ironman need help
Take notes... Jr is spilling the beans. I mean that in a good way. He knows what he's talking about.