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Click to view HSunshine's profile Pro 196 posts since
Sep 15, 2003
15. Oct 15, 2006 8:27 PM in response to: tarbaby065
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tarbaby:
Sorry, I don't buy it. I have several obese co-workers. They eat whatever they want, whenever they want. They exercise NO self-control whatsover. They seem to have cake, cookies, cupcakes, chips, candy, junk food etc every single day. And they are getting fatter every year.

<HR>


Yes, but that's not the same as someone with a Binge Eating Disorder. Your coworkers just eat too much and move too little, they don't deny themselves food and then consume thousands of calories in secret. That site is trying to treat people with an eating disorder - not people with bad habits. See the difference?
Click to view wetfeetl33t's profile Pro 91 posts since
Sep 10, 2006
16. Oct 16, 2006 8:52 AM in response to: tarbaby065
This really has nothing to do with sports/running nutrition, in that it isn't for people that want to lose a couple of pounds, or even people that eat unhealthy or are obese. This is for people that are severly obese, and try to diet, but in secret consume 2-3 gallons of ice cream and several boxes of donuts in a single evening...

The idea is that by teaching them that food is always available, they won't feel like they have to binge. We aren't so much talking about losing weight as about treating a disorder.
Click to view rockchalkchick's profile Amateur 31 posts since
Sep 14, 2003
17. Oct 16, 2006 12:12 PM in response to: tarbaby065
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tarbaby:
Sorry, I don't buy it. I have several obese co-workers. They eat whatever they want, whenever they want. They exercise NO self-control whatsover. They seem to have cake, cookies, cupcakes, chips, candy, junk food etc every single day. And they are getting fatter every year.

<HR>


The reality is, your coworkers (and a lot of overweight/obese people) probably don't actually give any thought to whether they actually want the foods, whether they're actually hungry, and, most importantly, when they're satisfied. They're eating out of boredom, stress, frustration, anger, depression, etc - not hunger or an actual desire for food. If you're not hungry and you don't want food in the first place, what's going to tell you to stop?

As someone else said, the trick is not the "whenever," it's the "want" - most of the advice in this line of thinking is to both break the denial-binge cycle and to be more mindful about the foods being eaten. A lot of "naturally thin" people do this without thinking - they eat foods that they desire or will satisfy their hunger, and stop when the desire/hunger is met. It just seems normal to them not to keep eating beyond satisfaction, and therefore they truly are eating whatever they want, whenever they want - it's a matter of listening to what their bodies really want.

I've dealt with this very issue, and these sorts of methods have helped me a lot. I didn't ever do the "food bag" approach, but I did learn a lot about myself and my eating habits by allowing myself anything I crave without labeling "good" or "bad" foods - I just make sure I eat whatever I choose with attention and relish every bite. Quite often, the brownie that looks so good is actually dry and unsatisfying and I throw most of it away, or it's so gooey and rich that 3 bites is more than enough and I share it or throw it away anyhow. I grew up in a house where my mother was always on a diet and rich or tasty foods were a delicacy - to the point where we learned to eat triple helpings of birthday cake or as many chips as we could eat, since if I didn't get it, someone else would and there would be none left when I wanted more. As an adult, this mentality continued - I was constantly on a diet and yet each 5 pounds lost usually resulted in 10 pounds gained back, since it was always feast-or-famine - when I'd "slip," I'd eat everything I'd denied myself and in massive quantities. Fast food tastes awful if you really focus on the taste, yet I'd eat it regularly for convenience and a "treat" since it was a "bad" food. Once I started addressing what I actually wanted, what I was hungry for and what foods taste like when I eat them, my "whatever I want, whenever I want" methods have helped me lose weight and, more importantly, stop obsessing over every calorie I put in my mouth.

The point of this long-winded comment is that the methods discussed go far beyond the simple "whatever and whenever you want" synopsis. It's rather like saying the Atkins diet is about eating all the bacon you want, and skipping the part about limiting carbohydrates (I'm not an Atkins fan, but it's an easy example of how a snippet doesn't exactly tell the whole story - you have to look at the thoery and application). Listening to what your body really wants, rather than deciding what to eat because it's got X calories or because you're stressed and want a "bad" food treat, has a huge payoff in the end if you're willing to make the effort.
Click to view LeahC044's profile Pro 129 posts since
Sep 5, 2005
18. Oct 16, 2006 8:39 PM in response to: tarbaby065
It's not necessarily for overweight or obese people either. One of my best friends has a binge eating disorder but it's balanced with bulemia, so she never gains any weight. She's 5'4, 120-125lbs..

I'm not saying that this is necessarily the norm, but I think it's kind of important to remember that not all people with binge eating disorders are overweight, let alone obese.. We should make sure not to stereotype people - particularly when it comes to EDs..
Click to view Leggova's profile Pro 101 posts since
Jun 24, 2002
19. Dec 26, 2007 3:36 AM in response to: tarbaby065
quote:<HR>Originally posted by ferrellk:
If you go to a book store you can find a few books on this subject.

I suggest you take a look at them and you will see that it isn't about what you think it is.

The idea of Overcoming Overeating is that by having food available to yourself at all times (in the beginning stage) you can retrain years of thinking of "forbidden" foods. If your body and brain knows that absolutely any food is an "ok" food at any time, then there is less of a need to overeat that particular food at a given time...because it will always be there.

You are retraining your brain to think differently. If an ice cream sundae suddenly becomes ok to eat at any given time then the anxiety in regards to eating it becomes less. And over time, the need to eat one becomes less and less.

It is a form of cognitive behavior therapy.

This is NOT about dieting or losing weight. It is about changing disordered thinking and the resulting bad habits in regards to food. It has been used successfully by underweight people who are anorexic and bulimic as well as those who are overweight.

Instead of passing judgement like it was the salt at the dinner table, and looking down your nose at someone who is "fat"...perhaps you should give thanks that you have a normal relationship with food and don't have to fight these battles.

http://This message has been edited by ferrellk (edited Oct-14-2006).
<HR>


Well put!
Click to view TrailBitten's profile Pro 178 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
20. Oct 17, 2006 1:47 PM in response to: tarbaby065
Everyone: eat whatever you want, whenever you want.Weigh whatever you weigh..... it's that simple.

Now, want a great workout that carries a built in reward? Go get two thirty packs of beer. (Oh, make it "light", if you must!) Now, take one in each hand and LIFT, LIFT, LIFT- do five sets.

Take same two 30 packs in hands, and do sets of squats.

Now, take same 30 packs and do stairs, if you have them.If no stairs, go up and down your driveway or yard, run or walk,and alternate lifting the packs.....

Do this daily for two weeks. You can have a beer now!
Click to view kdub2006's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Sep 25, 2006
21. Oct 22, 2006 7:45 PM in response to: tarbaby065
quote:<HR>Originally posted by rockchalkchick:
I've dealt with this very issue, and these sorts of methods have helped me a lot. I didn't ever do the "food bag" approach, but I did learn a lot about myself and my eating habits by allowing myself anything I crave without labeling "good" or "bad" foods - I just make sure I eat whatever I choose with attention and relish every bite. <HR>


This was a very perceptive comment -- and uncannily similar to where I find myself right now. I likewise experience an everyday battle between dieting methods and "bad" food binges. This problem is compounded by a high-stress desk job---I find myself rationalizing that I "deserve" to eat the "bad" foods because I worked 12 hours that day, then ran 6 miles after work. Predictably, though, the rationalization is not helping me lose any weight, particularly given the binges and my sedentary job. Aside from running, I have very little exercise.

So my question: psychologically, how did you go about the transition from overeating the "bad" foods to wisely heeding your cravings? Was it an overnight decision, or did you employ some sort of daily regimen?

Also, have you (or has anyone else) had any success with visualization/meditation exercises? Since I can't see myself losing weight with the so-called "food bag," I'm looking for other useful suggestions!!!



Katie
Click to view rockchalkchick's profile Amateur 31 posts since
Sep 14, 2003
22. Oct 24, 2006 8:56 AM in response to: tarbaby065
quote:<HR>Originally posted by kdub2006:

So my question: psychologically, how did you go about the transition from overeating the "bad" foods to wisely heeding your cravings? Was it an overnight decision, or did you employ some sort of daily regimen?

Also, have you (or has anyone else) had any success with visualization/meditation exercises? Since I can't see myself losing weight with the so-called "food bag," I'm looking for other useful suggestions!!!
<HR>


The best lines of thought I've heard on the topic of changing habits (any kind) is that it's VERY rare to get an overnight change that sticks. You can go with the forced-willpower route for only so long, but it rarely works for long. Especially in a situation like this - the whole point is to stop obsessing over right/wrong, good/bad... and if you force yourself to follow some external rules or regimen, you're just substituting one obsession for another. When it comes to eating the "bad" foods in moderation, it's a lot about being aware of what I'm doing - the first question that stops me probably 7 times out of 10 is "Do I want this? Or am I going to eat it because it's there?" If I the answer is "yes, I want it", I move to "Why do I want it?" and "Will it satisfy that?" Sometimes I'm truly hungry and junk food won't fill me up, sometimes I'm bored and I'll still be bored when I've eaten. Sometimes I really crave whatever it is and I eat it; sometimes I don't but eat it anyhow just because I want to - but either way I try to focus on how it tastes, how it feels, and, after each bite, whether I'm done or whether I want more. (That's always a hard one for me - stopping eating before the food's gone). This sounds like a huge drawn-out process (and at the beginning, it is), but it becomes more and more "normal" and unconscious as you go.

I've read a lot of the different books and theories on the subject, and it really comes down to finding a process that works for you. The "Overcoming Overeating" series was a little too touchy-feely for my taste, but works for some. The book I keep coming back to is The Rules of "Normal" Eating [/URL" target="_blank"> - it's fairly short but packs a lot of good theory without trying to guess what you're thinking or feeling (it works on a cognitive-behavior therapy model - if you know your root beliefs/values that are driving your actions, it's easier to change them).

Also good have been "If I'm So Smart, Why Can't I Lose Weight?" (
link [/URL" target="_blank">) and "Life Is Hard, Food Is Easy" ( link [/URL" target="_blank"> ). The first one is a little heavy on her "life coach" mentality and the second seemed to oversimplify things for my taste, but I've used methods of each at times.

In general, it's a slow and sometimes back-and-forth process. I definitely still have my days where I eat whatever comes in front of me without thinking or when I slip back into starving myself or rewarding with food - but it's a long way from where I started. The biggest thing I like about the "Rules" book is that she makes a huge point of not expecting 100% success - if you hold yourself to perfection, you're going to fail. I work on about an 80% model at the moment - if I make logical, reasonable choices (including eating what I crave when I want it) for 80% of the time, I don't fault the times when I eat a bagel just because it's a meeting and I want something to do with my hands. (Though I do still try to reflect on that and consider my options for next time, I don't obsess over doing something "wrong").

Anyhow, again, this was very wordy, but I tend to babble. Feel free to shoot me an e-mail if you'd like more information (rockchalkchick AT hotmail), or just post more here - whichever you'd prefer.
Click to view avocate's profile Amateur 14 posts since
Jun 5, 2001
23. Oct 25, 2006 5:48 PM in response to: tarbaby065
Click to view Nolenurse's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Oct 27, 2006
24. Oct 27, 2006 5:05 PM in response to: tarbaby065
This is really important - the website you got that information from is some kinda crazy fad deal - not Overeaters Anonymous. OA focuses on abstaning from foods that are problematic, having controlled, nutritionally appropriate meals and on eating 3 meals a day with nothing in between. There are some exceptions to this but in general, that is the OA plan of eating. There is no "food bag", no encouragement to eat whatever you want...none of that!
It is important that people who compulsively overeat don't associate fad sites with the "real" OA. It is a completely different deal and I would guess, that food bag plan would only make you more obese and more unhappy.
Just FYI!
Click to view rockchalkchick's profile Amateur 31 posts since
Sep 14, 2003
26. Oct 28, 2006 9:07 AM in response to: tarbaby065
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tarbaby:
Thanks for correcting that. Apologies for mistaking Overcoming with Overeaters Anon.

Agree that the whole "food bag" thing does nothing to teach the obese to "just say no" to unhealthy foods.

<HR>


That's absolutely true. Because the argument of this book/theory is that "just say no" is part of what gets you there in the first place. For some (not all), the obesity and disordered eating stems from the fact that they constantly feel the pressure to never eat "bad" foods - and therefore when they do eat a cookie, they think they may as well eat 4 dozen cookies. The basis of the theory being discussed is that by letting go of the "good" and "bad" labels, a person can eat a cookie when she wants a cookie - and not have to feel guilty, depressed, stressed, and eat the rest of the bag in the hope of feeling better. One cookie never made anyone obese. Most of us could eat one cookie a day for the rest of our lives and it wouldn't have a major impact on our lives (then again, that assumes it's not a cookie the size of your face, but that's the portion debate and a whole different issue).

This certainly isn't true for all people. But for those who struggle with day-to-day eating, why mock a method that might help them become less obsessive and control their weight in a more healthy way? Most of us realize that "diets" don't work, in that most folks who follow a set of strict rules can lose weight but expect to go back to their old ways (and gain the weight back). In order to succeed in long-term weight loss, most of us want/need to be able to eat a cookie or a slice of birthday cake or pizza - there are some who never touch "unhealthy foods" again in their lives, but most people need to learn to deal with them in moderation, and part of that is removing the obsessive good/bad dichotomy.

If you don't deal with this sort of issue, good for you - but why is it such an issue what someone else does? Obviously the "diet" mentality isn't working so well for most people - what's wrong with trying something different?
Click to view starfish1000073's profile Rookie 2 posts since
Oct 23, 2004
27. Oct 28, 2006 10:13 PM in response to: tarbaby065
TO ROCKCHALKCHICK AND KDUB2006.

I think we have something in common. I was (and still am but to a lesser degree) a closet eater. Who was I trying to kid? Who AM I trying to kid?!! I'm far from "cured".

I used to have one taste of ice cream and then eat the whole thing. I'd lie to myself that I could keep ice cream in the fridge and have a sensible portion on occasion. What a joke. One glass of wine well why not finish the bottle? One piece of mudcake why why not have half? One hamburger well why not the fries and milkshake too? I think you get the picture.

I took 10 weeks to count my calories just to get an idea of how much I was consuming and for the last 3 weeks or so I've been "eating by feel", if you will. No counting. I was pleased to discover that my food choices in general were very good. I was saddened to learn that my ability to control the less frequent but bad choices (and volume) in private was a brick wall in my path. Again the HUGE realization. So another corner turned...

As I sit here today, I feel slightly more in control of my eating but no where near neutral about food. It's only been 3 weeks of feeling my way and I struggle mightily at times. I hope it will get easier.

The hard part is, working out has never been a problem for me, it's been my escape. Too bad my body shape reflects otherwise. I must look like a fool and liar to the world. It's a burden I carry, far heavier than any bag of food.

Good Luck.
Click to view recoil's profile Rookie 1 posts since
Oct 30, 2006
28. Oct 30, 2006 5:18 AM in response to: tarbaby065
Have to say, reading thru this I agree with Starfish1000.

I'm like her in that I secretly eat or rather I hide what I eat from my wife. Chances are when I get in tonight she will ask how my food has been today and Ill say "fine" what I mean is I have had an extra muffin, maybe a chocolate bar etc. Why have I had those things? probably because they are deemed bad whilst I am dieting, after all the forbidden fruit is generally the sweetest and gives that extra little "thrill" to eating it. In reality after Ive finished my choccy bar Ill think "what an idiot" and be depressed about it, then Ill comfort eat and spiral downwards till Ive gone thru 5 or 6 bars and some crisps. Having a big bag of chocolate next to me wouldnt work for me, Id eat it all and then carry on... but I have no doubt the food bag idea will help those that think foods are bad, at least it will get them to a point where they can see that they dont have to be secret about it and then move onto the next stage of the healing process, or at least I guess thats the idea.