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261587 Views 1,829 Replies Latest reply: Nov 12, 2008 10:05 AM by michaelmack33 Go to original post 1 ... 9 10 11 12 13 ... 122 Previous Next
  • six 13 Amateur 16 posts since
    Dec 2, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    150. Dec 11, 2007 10:47 AM (in response to Irishrunner55)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    let's see, I don't think I called anyone any names.  No, I dont have an advanced degree in cheating, but I do hold advanced degrees.  It doesn't take me any longer than you to get out the door.  I do have a concern that globally we are facing a crises regarding chronic disease states, including obesity, and the number of obese people in the US is out of control.  So anything that gets more people here healthy is a good thing.  If people in the back of the pack are wearing Ipods, who cares?  They are out getting some exercise.  And the trickle down effect of more people running/walking/skipping/leap frogging a marathon is immense.  Running shoe technology advances because companies make a profit.  Runs become more prevalent because more people are entering. And if your city sees a demand for walkers/runners/joggers/leap froggers you just might see more places to run where you are not competing with trucks and cars.  And maybe, just maybe, it will become so common for people to be outdoors that we won't hear of runners being hit by cars, or things thrown from cars.

  • molasses_jct Rookie 6 posts since
    Aug 19, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    151. Dec 11, 2007 11:34 AM (in response to Active Toby)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Rather than making sweeping statements (I missed the meeting where EVERYONE who doesn't wear an iPOD while running in an event got together so that the one person here could pass along their unanimous sentiment that we're all cheaters if we do - rule breakers, yes. I know, "look it up". . .I have a degree in English and can use a dictionary), or guessing "why," we COULD just pose a question to the Rules Committee of the USATF. Contacts can be found here: http://www.usatf.org/about/directory/info.asp?parent=Administrative+Division&group=Rules+Committee.

     

     

    I'd love to see if we could direct someone there to this message board and have them respond. Someone with some actual "authority," that is. Happy running!

     

     

  • Spiridon Amateur 21 posts since
    Nov 21, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    152. Dec 11, 2007 1:12 PM (in response to six 13)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    I am not surprise that you have an advanced degree; just by the way you rationalized dishonesty for the sake of reducing obesity. I can tell it's not the first time you rationalized dishonesty. So you must be in favor artificially inflating   SAT, GMAT, GRE and LSAT. What is the harm? After all it only brings more people to higher education. Other people artificially inflating their grades or test scores are not going to damage the future Einsteins of the world. They are not going to be any less brilliant.   Plus in situations like this those people that did amend the requirements for their diplomas can brag about their advance degrees. It's not cheating just disregarding, no harm at all.

     

     

  • six 13 Amateur 16 posts since
    Dec 2, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    153. Dec 11, 2007 1:27 PM (in response to Spiridon)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    no, I don't agree with artificially inflating grades.  Ultimately, that causes harm to too many people.  I am interested in a rational discussion of whether the rule makes sense, and if it warrants so much hostility.  A lot of posts on this site seem to emphasize a split over who is "welcome" at events-how fast do you have to run to count? I don't believe that wearing headphones in a marathon is such a big deal.  As long as race organizers keep a handle on sorting out the start so that people are with the right groups, great.  I hate trying to run around people, or bike around people as much as the next guy.  But I have learned that it is going to happen for whatever reason, and I will have a better time (and better time) by keeping my cool and dealing with it.  We have a community bike ride here every year, and the year before last the mayor decided the families should start first (which is why politicians shouldn't make decisions)  Less than a quarter mile from the start, the climbing starts.  The chains were dropping like a precision drill team...

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    154. Dec 11, 2007 1:30 PM (in response to Spiridon)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Before one can rationalize dishonesty, one has to be aware of it. Most of the rationalization comes from a culture that was not exposed to the same moral values as many of us. The only other explanation is that they were exposed to it, but rejected it as too limiting when selfishness pops up. No wonder they have no real feeing of accomplishment. For them the accomplishment is being there, not in the getting there. Once they get too comfortable in their own selfishness, they seek other slackers so they can help them gain a similar status of having without doing. That culture either has no sense of dishonesty or thinks the rest of us are fools to be so hindered by it.

  • six 13 Amateur 16 posts since
    Dec 2, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    155. Dec 11, 2007 1:51 PM (in response to NHSenior)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    interesting.  No, the process of running a marathon and training for it, to me, is about personal challenge.  Not an outside validation based on a finishing place.  I recognize that sports, for me, will be about nothing more than personal challenge and fun.  Does that make me less of a runner?  By the way, if the race is sanctioned and says "no headphones", I won't wear headphones.  But following rules "Just because" is very limiting.

  • molasses_jct Rookie 6 posts since
    Aug 19, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    156. Dec 11, 2007 1:56 PM (in response to Active Toby)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Wow. There are a lot of mean people in the world. I love the name-calling (sarcasm here), but I guess the truth hurts, as I am an occasional iPOD wearer who, according to Websters is a full-fledged cheater. I thought this was a discussion among fellow-runners, fast and slow, etc., about the arguments for and against THE RULE (perhaps we need to re-read the original catalyst for discussion, here: http://www.active.com/running/Articles/iPod_Conflict_Brews_in_Racing.htm).

     

     

    Facts are (and I recognize this): it's a rule NOW. If I break the rule, I'm breaking the rule. I've broken the rule and stressed-out for weeks before doing it. No official enforced the rule, so I guess I'll pay the price in the afterlife because according to these posts, I must be inherently bad, full of evil, and dishonest. (I DO recognize dishonesty.) Now, if I run a race with an iPOD or the wrong pair of shorts, I'll look around for those glaring eyes of those posting here to see them boring into my corrupted soul. Pray for me. Of course, 97% of those runners will be ahead of me if my past pace is any indication. . .so I guess the advantage I'm getting is they'll have to turn around and slow down to get a good look at me in case I get sucked into the fiery pit of you-know-where around mile 10.

     

     

    I would like to wear an iPOD legally, so can perhaps someone help get our discussion back on track on how we can influence a change in the rules in a constructive manner? THEN, if the rule changes, those of you who don't want to wear an iPOD can enjoy your race, and I can enjoy mine even more with a clear conscience. No one will be passing judgment on anyone, and the world will be full of peace, love, and understanding. Sorry -- I digressed, I think I heard that from Elvis Costello on my iPOD.  Let's all get over ourselves on passing individual judgments. I don't even think that last post mentioned the word iPOD!

     

     

  • NoLimitz Amateur 28 posts since
    Dec 4, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    157. Dec 11, 2007 2:06 PM (in response to Spiridon)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    I was curious how others felt about the IPod rule, so I have followed this thread for the last few days.  It is obvious that there are some really passionate non-IPod/MP3 users  out there.  I agree with those on this post who stated that this is not merrily a question of right or wrong, but a question of whether this rule is just or ridiculous.  I have not read one argument against wearing IPods during races that makes sense.  I mean really, come on, do you truly believe that IPods give those of us who use them an advantage and/or should be considered cheating? Please…I get more advantages from caffeine gels and sports drinks then I get from my IPod. I simply enjoy running more with music than without.  I question the ruling that makes IPod use during USATF sanctioned races illegal which is within my rights.  I do not believe those who make the rules are perfect and that rules should be followed without question, especially a rule as absurd as not allowing IPods for whatever reason USATF and/or posters on this thread make up.   I believe that this rule will change and if it does not, it will be ignored and not because we are cheaters, but because the rights of the many IPod wearers (and there is more than not) will outweigh the rule of a few angry non IPod wearing running purest, or whatever you want to be called these days.

  • JR007 Amateur 51 posts since
    Nov 18, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    158. Dec 11, 2007 4:51 PM (in response to NoLimitz)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Your choosing to run in their race.  Maybe you should try to follow their rules or just run a different route that day. Noone said that you can't run down the street with an ipod. They're just asking you not to run in Their race with one.

     

     

    I think you would agree that a race should have rules. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe just the rules that you think are important.

     

     

    When I'm in someone elses house, I try to follow their rules. Even if I don't like them.  

     

     

  • Yodiwan Pro 123 posts since
    Oct 1, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    159. Dec 11, 2007 6:31 PM (in response to molasses_jct)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    jctroch -- Although the USATF may officially ban headphones, it doesn't mean all individual races do.  In my area, for example, the local road runners organization always says  "headphones are strongly discouraged" in the race rules (yes, I do actually read the fine print), but they do not ban them outright.  Oddly enough, iPod usage seems to be governed by, of all things, the weather!  (It seems to drop dramatically in winter when people have to worry about hats and gloves and layers, not to mention rain or snow.)

     

     

    I'd suggest checking race rules if you are concerned about the headphone issue -- organizations seem to be pretty clear about their stance on their websites / in their race materials.  I suppose an RD might disagree with me, but as long as the host organization does not ban headphones and as long as you are not someone seeking to qualify for a prize/race governed by USATF rules and requirements, then I think you can race legally with your iPod (and just steer clear of the races in which headphones are banned).

     

     





    Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not.  When you race him, he will win.

  • Migo Amateur 12 posts since
    Nov 20, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    160. Dec 11, 2007 6:36 PM (in response to Active Toby)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

    Is this the longest running post of all time? I keep waiting for it to end.....Im starting to entertain the idea though that purely for the sake of irritating the elites I'm going to wear my ipod to every single race from now on......with the sound off

  • Yodiwan Pro 123 posts since
    Oct 1, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    161. Dec 11, 2007 7:09 PM (in response to NoLimitz)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    MJblue -- I guess this would differ from person to person, but for me, listening to an iPod can provide certain physical advantages.  By adjusting the volume of the music (or switching between different playlists) I can slightly increase or decrease my heart rate.  If I'm really cold, for example, I can use the music to warm me up (a little).  I've also been known to repace songs so the beat matches my stride (although I stopped doing that because it was a royal pain in the butt).  Also, I've never used these, but there are actual pacing programs that some people listen to.  Then, of course, there are the tremendous psychological benefits of music, like when I was struggling up a hill two miles from the finish line with no feeling in my toes and stopping to walk was looking like an awfully tempting option until the Star Wars theme came on.  (I'm a big fan, as you might be able to tell from my alias.)  As someone who runs a 1:55 half marathon, though, I'm hardly in line for Boston, let alone a medal, and since I'd never run a race in which headphones were banned, I ran with a clear conscience.

     

     

    Then I discovered that whatever small benefit I was getting from running with my iPod I could get without it -- I can pace myself with my breathing / strides / arm movements, and telling myself to go, go, go is actually as effective as music, and if I get really cold waiting for the race to start I do a few push ups or some ujaya breathing (yoga thing, if you're wondering) -- and I've since run a couple races (and PRs) without it.  Then I lost my iPod.  No kidding.  Even I have to find it slightly amusing that someone who was so wedded to an iPod (and who "used" it in ways that would terrify the USATF) is now running without one.

     

     





    Somewhere in the world someone is training when you are not.  When you race him, he will win.

  • Maple Syrup Amateur 13 posts since
    Dec 10, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    162. Dec 11, 2007 7:54 PM (in response to Active Toby)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    I am with Migo....I am now running with my I-pod with the sound off just to hear the sighs and moans of the elitist and long-haired pony tail men in cut off jean shorts.  Time to laugh and have others complain about the money and efffort of all I-pod Cheaters take from this sport we call running.  Where are the refs, the cheerleaders, the penalty box for such non-sense. 

     

     

    This debate turns too personal.  I am for brining out the pros and the cons.

     

     

    Pros:  More people are starting to take up running and love to pass the time away as running is BORING!!!!!!  The volume adjusts and you can hit pause to stop music to listen on what is going on around you.  It hurts no one but just the individuals ears of a long period of time.  It is amusing to see others singing off tune as they run, trying to guess what they are singing.  Pure motivation.

     

     

    Cons:  Annoyes others as it is written in USATF events, which is less than 1/5 of the running races out there.  People that sing off tune.

     

     

     

     

     

    I can think of more pros than cons.  I would like to know what the others that press the issue of not wearing (besides it is illegal in certain races) on the cons of wearing an I-pod.  And if it is dangerous, put it in a situation.

     

     

  • emgilly Rookie 6 posts since
    Nov 19, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    163. Dec 12, 2007 7:11 AM (in response to Maple Syrup)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    Fellow ipod wearers... this is the bottom line: non-ipod users fall into 2 groups....

     

     

    runners who have been running for years without the assistance of iPOD feel jaded because they've been running, mile after mile with nothing but their own egotistical thoughts to accompany them. And they feel we should do the same because its only fair. If they've had to put up with themselves for all these years, we should too!

     

     

    And if they don't fall into that group, they are in the "but it's against the rules!" group. These are the people that NEVER do anything wrong... not even go over 65 mph in their cars or jaywalk. I really just feel bad for this group... living by "rules" set by everyone else.

     

     

    So really, there is no covincing either group that iPODs are not hurting them. I have been following this discussion for several weeks, mainly for the amusment of how worked up people get over something so stupid. Apparently wearing an ipod is equivlant to using steroids... i was unaware. thank you for the enlightenment.

     

     

    10-min milers UNITE!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • NHSenior Legend 387 posts since
    Nov 23, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    164. Dec 12, 2007 7:44 AM (in response to emgilly)
    Re: The iPod conflict brews in racing

     

    What are you smoking? 

     

     

    <<< they are in the "but it's against the rules!" group.

     

     

    What does who the messenger is have anything to do with validity of the message. I know so many today like to toss that around, but would you stay employed pulling that crap on your boss. Maybe once or twice but certainly not for long. 

     

     

    <<<<< These are the people that NEVER do anything wrong... not even go over 65 mph in their cars or jaywalk.

     

     

    Look, that "somebody else is doing something else wrong" baloney didn't work on your parents. If it did, they were idiots and we see where you get it. I doubt however, that your parents were idiots,  so  I guess they just dropped you on your head a few times too many. 

     

     

    Are your friends impressed when you offer stuff like that?

     

     

    <<<<< I really just feel bad for this group... living by "rules" set by everyone else.

     

     

    Lovely, just lovely. Another rocket scientist in the logic department.  This person thinks we should only live by rules "WE " set for ourselves.

     

     

    You probably haven't lived long enough to figure out that everything is secondary, once someone, or groups writes you off as dishonest, disingenuous in how your deal with others or if they think you ahve less than a reasonable amount of moral fiber. The reason most of the people who are in your face on this is that this is no longer because of the Ipod, it because you've shown yourselves to be not worthy of respect relative to honoring agreements many of you have and do sign in races apps. If you don't like being looked down on, get the hell out of the hole.  

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

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