quote:<HR>Originally posted by reboot:
Your question regarding which one is better doesn't really have an answer (hard vs soft). They are so nearly identical that any difference is only of academic interest.

You can eat as many egg whites as you can afford. You would likely want to limit them if you hope to be able to eat other foods with protein. Your daily intake of protein should be under 15% of your total calories. Egg whites are very nearly pure protein and water (about 10% protein and 90% water). I doubt you should eat more than about one or two per day, particularly if you want to be able to eat any other form of protein. If egg whites were your only form of protein, I expect you would have an extremely boring diet and quite possibly unhealthy as well.

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There is no reason to restrict protein to less than 15% of total calories. You would be fine even up to 35% calories of protein.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by GreginND:
There is no reason to restrict protein to less than 15% of total calories. You would be fine even up to 35% calories of protein.

<HR>

Well, all the responsible experts recommend against such high intakes of protein. I believe it puts a heavy load on your kidneys without offering any nutritional benefits. Personally, I believe it is bad because it makes it impossible to consume a reasonable, and widely recognized, healthy quantity of fats and carbs.

Perhaps you would like to offer your reasons for believing 35% can be healthy in the face of the overwhelming opinion of nutritional experts.

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gotta run...

isnt the 15% for typical people that are seditary???? im obviosuly no expert but I have read many articles that say the same as the following:

"Several types of evidence indicate that exercise causes substantial changes in protein metabolism. In fact, recent data suggests that the protein recommended dietary allowance might actually be 100% higher for individuals who exercise on a regular basis. Optimal intakes, although unknown, may be even higher, especially for individuals attempting to increase muscle mass and strength."
Lemon, in Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise (19:5, S179-S19)

I think i've read its over 2g/kg that it can become a stressful input to the kidneys... depending on how you work out your calorific needs that can be 30%, so not far off,,,,,, 35% might be a tad high, but then, science is constantly evolving, accepted values discarded for the next 'correct' one

Anyway nm, just a though,

Time to go eat

Will

quote:<HR>Originally posted by GreginND:
All the "reasonable" experts? I guess that means everyone who doesn't hold your opinion would be unreasonable? Just asking!

Actually, I agree with you that high protein/high fat diets are not all they're cracked up to be. You're right that studies show increased renal damage due to these diets like Atkins. Personally I could never advocate that diet. But to say everyone should hold their protein consumption to 15% or less is way to general. Everyone is different. For example, someone who is lifting and wants to build muscle can benefit from higher lean protein consumption without harmful effects. There are studies that show diets with higher protein and low fat consumption are effective and do not show evidence of impaired renal function. For example, see this article about one such study:

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_7_24/ai_n14917329[/URL" target="_blank">

My personal experience and reading tells me that one can safely enjoy higher protein amounts if you keep the fat low and eat healthy fruits/vegetables and grains as the remainder of your calories.

Egg whites are an excellent source of non-fat protein! I'd go easy on the yolks.


Oh, by the way, here's another study that compares high protein/low fat vs. high monounsaturated fat diets. Both were equally effective in reducing cardiovascular disease risk.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0887/is_5_24/ai_n13795375[/URL" target="_blank">


http://This message has been edited by GreginND (edited Jan-27-2007).

http://This message has been edited by GreginND (edited Jan-27-2007).<HR>

Your citation is hardly a recommendation for healthy runners. It was done on overweight and obese women and for a relatively short period. To extrapolate those results to a recommendation for any long term diet would be completely irresponsible.

quote:<HR>One hundred women between the age of 20 years and 65 years of age and with a BMI between 27 and 40 were included in this study. The women were randomly assigned to 1 of 2 isocaloric dietary interventions for 12 weeks: 1) a high-protein, low saturated fat dietary pattern<HR>

As I said, all "reasonable" experts.

As for your example of a weight lifter, let me make a couple comments.

Any lifter wanting to build muscle would be putting in some serious lifting hours. That will inevitably result in an increased caloric demand which, if met with a normal balanced diet with about 15% protein, will result in a proportional increase in protein that will likely fully satisfy the muscle building demands. A modest increase in protein will certainly ensure this.

My second comment is that all (human) people are surprisingly similar. Were there any major differences, they would form different species. While there may be unusual circumstances under which an unusual diet is appropriate, this is a runners forum and some diet from out in left field is not the kind of thing to suggest for normal conditions (nor is it recommended by any reasonable professional).

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gotta run...

Reboot I'm just wondering what average your basing your thoughts on because all I know is that in a realistic point of view 15% protein for someone running 20 miles a week may work but how is that 15% going to work for someone running 60-100 miles a week. It just doesn't make logical sense that one percentage can cover every single level of activity and muscle exhaustion. everyone is different some people work better with more protein some with more carbs personally I eat about 20-25% protein for my diet and feel great where as when I go below this I feel more sore more often. You need to start seeing that everyone is different and all body's work different, they all function on the same basic lines but just because they function similar doesn't mean everyone needs the exact same things and nothing different. Also to have such a closed minded point of view on something like nutrition is much more dangerous than anything you've called anyone out on so far.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Matttherunner:
Reboot I'm just wondering what average your basing your thoughts on because all I know is that in a realistic point of view 15% protein for someone running 20 miles a week may work but how is that 15% going to work for someone running 60-100 miles a week. It just doesn't make logical sense that one percentage can cover every single level of activity and muscle exhaustion. everyone is different some people work better with more protein some with more carbs personally I eat about 20-25% protein for my diet and feel great where as when I go below this I feel more sore more often. You need to start seeing that everyone is different and all body's work different, they all function on the same basic lines but just because they function similar doesn't mean everyone needs the exact same things and nothing different. Also to have such a closed minded point of view on something like nutrition is much more dangerous than anything you've called anyone out on so far.<HR>

A runner doing 60 to 100 m/w would be burning through an extra 1000 calories (approximately) every day. Just maintaining the suggested 15% protein would automatically mean the high mileage runner would be consuming an additional 35 to 40 grams of protein. More important, that same high mileage runner would be burning carbs at an enormous rate. In order to have the energy necessary to run those miles, the high mileage runner needs those carbs. An increase in protein would necessarily reduce the carb intake making it much more difficult to reach the running goals.

If anything, the low mileage runner is the one who can increase their protein intake. Their carb demands are not nearly so high so they can better afford a reduction in the percent carbs thus making a higher protein intake more tolerable.

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gotta run...

quote:<HR>Originally posted by reboot:
Your daily intake of protein should be under 15% of your total calories. Egg whites are very nearly pure protein and water (about 10% protein and 90% water). I doubt you should eat more than about one or two per day, particularly if you want to be able to eat any other form of protein.

<HR>

Well, eggwhites may be high in protein but they are very low in calories. So, let's say that the poster's goal is indeed to have 15% of daily cal. intake come from protein and that the poster eats about 2000cals per day (as a male runner this seems reasonable). That would be 300cals of protein. An eggwhite has at most 20calories. So, if the poster really loves eggwhites it seems like eating up to 5 would still leave room for plenty of other protein options (200cal worth to be specific).