She has done an 18 miler already. She can run the race now. It becomes a mental issue. Get the distance up get the injury issue managable and let her off the leash. Watch her run!

I agree with other poster(s); I think she's ready to run a marathon now. But that does not always mean a good thing. There's a certain timing for everything and, in my opinion (and surely it's not the ONLY opinion), keep on training for 6 months and stay focused is very hard. And, now she's gone up to 18 miles, where would she go from here? 22? That's fine. But all those things should have already laid out so she'll know where she's going right up to the marathon in October.

While I wouldn't necessarily say "only elites train 50MPW," it is quite a bit of running for, I'm sorry and I fully expect some criticism here, "only" 4:20. You didn't say what her 10k time was; and I don't know what pace she "comfortably" trains at. But, just by glancing at her weekly schedule, if she trains that much but "only" plod at, say, 10-minute pace all the time, I'm not quite sure how effective the program is at the level of her weekly program.

If I were her coach, I would actually cut back the total work load but include some faster runs. I'm not necessarily saying "tougher" workouts; but faster runs like 6X200 at fast but relaxed speed. Work on her form (I don't know if she's an efficient runner or awkward). Or have her do something like go on a local track and do concentrated tempo run of 2 miles--that's really not that much but keep it to, say, 8:30 pace--that's a little faster than 2:10 per lap pace and would get her into 3:45 marathon pace. Is it too much? Well, has she ever trained like this before? The way you can do it is; get her on track and have her run 8 laps while YOU are taking lap times without telling her. Now you know where she is. Next time, you'll map it out so she'll run strongly and evenly. Don't let her get away from NOT doing it again simply because it hurts (who knows, she might like this type of workout anyways!). When she gets comfortable with this, instead of getting it faster, increase the distance. Depending on how much time you have; get it up to, say, 5 miles or so before the marathon.

Another thing she can do is hill training. Find a good long hill of about 300m or longer. She doesnt' have to run it fast but do Lydiard's Steep Hill Running with slow forward momentum with good knee lift and good ankle snap. You can do these two (tempo and hill) on alternating weeks with 200m striding on, say, Friday. You can certainly substitute some road races with tempo; but make sure she would NOT miss weekly long runs.

All this time, she should keep up with her long runs. Personally, I like to alternate long run--a bit shorter--a bit lonter type of pattern. For example; I would have her do something like 1:45 one week, then down to 1:30, then up to 2:00, then down to 1:40, up again to 2:20, down to 1:45, 2:45...something like that. This is just a random example. I don't necessarily have any "formula". I usually work with "feeling" as long there's this kind of pattern.

I would like to have her do her last long run (most probably the longest run) of about 3:00~3:30 about 3 or 4 weeks before the marathon depending on how she feels about recovery. We've had this debate before with MaryT and, all sincerelity, I do thank her for dragging me into this debate becaue I did learn a lot. But I still stand that 3:00~3:30 would be enough "particularly" if it's someone like your friend who seems very very fit (from her past activities and the weekly schedule she's been handling). Of course, there are certain considerations you have to look into. I feel if the person is big, he/she might need to prepare more for pounding, hence, perhaps a bit longer run. If the person is small in frame and very light on his/her feet (efficient running form), you most likely can get away with a bit less.

Train to be faster or stronger, such as tempo runs or hill training or even 200 repeats, would actually help her endurance because what previously was a fast run of, say, 9:45, would be now a comfortable pace.

If anything, I would drop one of her midium long run during the week--instead of 2X80 minutes, I'd do one 90~100 minutes and shuffle other quiality work like tempo or hill somewhere else; then continue her long run on the weekend; and 200s on Friday. You can schedule 200s the day after the medium long run because, if anything, it'll refresh her legs. But be a bit cautious how you place quiality workout and medium long run (and long run). Study her reaction and place them wisely so she won't stress her legs too much. I guess logical placement would be Tuesday: quiality work, Thursday: medium long run and Sunday the long run. And you fill in the rest. Basically, I wouldn't worry too much about what she'd do the rest of the days as long as she's doing something. But, yes, to your point; she shouldn't do too much on other days. What would happen is then she would just do mediocre workout day after day after day. Those "point workouts" should be done with clear purpose. I'd much rather her do a 1:30 on Tuesday WELL and just plod along on Wednesday for 20 minutes; than her do 1:30 at 12-minute pace plodding followed by another 70 mintues of 12-minute plodding.

I don't like to measure the course for training (forget those Garmin thing!) because then the runner would put too much pressure on themselves all the time. However, as a coach, I'd like to know, in general, what kind of pace my athlete is running at "comfortably". And from that, I'd like to calculate around what time he/she is capable of running a marathon. Where did she (and you) come up with 4:20? Is it really realistic, or is it too conservative? She should definitely run at least one half marathon (preferably 25k if it's available) about 6 weeks before to gauge where she is. Over-pacing, probably more so than the longest run for the training, makes you vulnerable to "the wall". Don't just pick the number; actually calculate the appropriate pace (I'm not saying you didn't). I was very proud of myself last year when my girl ran a 25k race before Chicago that I predicted, from all the training we'd done together, she's able to do 7:50 pace. She averaged 7:51! (patting on my back...) Of course, she was about 10 minutes off in her marathon but, oh, well...What it does is to give you (or her) a very good idea of where she should be at each check-point during the race. Pacing plays a lot more than most people realize in the marathon. Of course, a word of caution (still too far away from the actual marathon though); once she starts and finds herself running a bit faster than she expected, tell her not to just slam on her brake. Once getting into a good rhythm, holding it back may actually make it more awkward. So be careful with that as well!

What else? What else did I miss???

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nobby:
When I did hill training with my girl, my Achilles was sore so we did step running instead--for some reason, it didn't bother my Achilles as much. So whatever works; just understand what it does and be clear of what benefits you are getting and you'll be fine.<HR>

The foot plant on steps is relatively flat, whereas on hills, esp. steep hills, the foot is dorsiflexed more, so there's less stretching on the achilles on steps. Same difference as a step mill (escalator) to a treadmill (moving ramp). I continue to work on strengthening my achilles and sometimes my running gets ahead of my strengthening. One of my hills has a set of erosion control steps in the middle (nice spacing for me), and I find they're really nice for power development for large muscles without stressing the achilles too much like some other hills do.