First glimpse of success with LHR training

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BrandonE

127 posts since
Nov 7, 2007

Sep 12, 2007 2:55 PM

First glimpse of success with LHR training

So, I've been plugging away at this LHR thing for 6 weeks now. No significant progress so far. I'm still running glacially slow and still occaisionally struggling (slowing down even more and/or walking) to keep my HR down below my MAF.

Today felt like a seismic shift. I started out normally. On the TM, 5 min of walking at 15mm pace, then started running at same pace. My HR climbed, but seemed to slow down and hover (about MAF-8) sooner than it normally does. I'm feeling good. Then there's some subtle shift in my running and the way I feel and I know I'm in for a HR spike, but this time, I can feel it before it happens. Over the course of a few split seconds I readjust my body: relax my shoulders consciously, go back to the "floating" stride I just had, and ease my breathing. Suddenly, I've got control of my HR again, without spiking as high as normal. I'm so excited! I just figured out what to do to keep my HR under control and still run at the same pace! Normally I would have had to slow it down to bring my HR back down, or I would have had to take a walk break. It happens a few more times, and all it takes is subtle adjustments before I'm back in control. I make it all the way to 25 minutes running before it's even necessary to make these adjustments regularly, and normally at this point I've already slowed down by over 1m/m to keep my HR down. I'm feeling so good at the end that I push it out to 33.5 minutes, and I'm really still in control then and at the same original pace!

Up until today, I was beginning to worry that as a new runner, I just didn't have the training volume for this to work for me, and I was only still running this way because it's feels so much better to do (which is, of course, a great reason anyway). Now I have a little hope that soon (maybe not my next run, but soon) I'll be able to increase my pace a little and still keep my HR under control.

Sorry that's long. I was excited and had to share.

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

1. Sep 12, 2007 6:21 PM

in response to: BrandonE

Glad you're seeing some improvement. If you're anywhere near
me, the dewpoint just dropped by about 20 degrees and if that's
the case, that in and of itself will likely mean an improvement of
30 sec - 2 min/mile at a given heart rate. We're starting to enter
the season where many people are finally going to see some
decent pace improvements.

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

runawayjesse

538 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

2. Sep 12, 2007 8:25 PM

in response to: BrandonE

If the weather plays that much of a roll how does one know if they are really improving?

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

3. Sep 12, 2007 8:40 PM

in response to: BrandonE

quote:<HR>Originally posted by runawayjesse:
If the weather plays that much of a roll how does one know if they are really improving?<HR>

You're joking, right?

If not, it's completely trivial:

1. in the same conditions, pace consistently improves at
the low heart rate
2. race times improve, particularly if they weren't improving
when you they were before
3. you no longer need carbs any longer to make it through
long runs or races
4. injuries are no longer occurring
5. in the same conditions, your heart rate is much lower than
it was before at the same pace

For example, within 2 months, my one mile official race time
improved from 6:10 to 5:36. In 9 months, my marathon time
improved from 4:23 to 3:24. In 12 months, it went to 3:19.
In 14 months, it went to 3:12. In 15 months, 10 mile race
time improved from 77 to 69 in the same race, same conditions.
10k improved from 48:xx to 42:xx. 5k improved from 21:xx to
just over 20. Pace went from 8:30/mile at HR from 165-175
and 17 min/mile at HR of 145 to 7:15/mile at HR of 140.
Pace dropoff from beginning to end of a run was reduced by
over 2 minutes per mile. No more running injuries. No more
need for carbs just to make it through any long runs or races
of marathon or less.

Is that clear?

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

Fatdude

93 posts since
Dec 27, 2005

4. Sep 13, 2007 2:52 AM

in response to: BrandonE

OK, a stupid newbie question. I am fairly new to running ad the thought of LHR running is very appealing. Especially when it seems from reading posts you run better and the lack of injuries speaks for itself if done correctly I believe.

Can a realitvely new runner benefit by starting this method? I am running around 10-12 miles per week.

Just curious...

------------------
"One foot in front of the other"
ME[/URL" target="_blank">

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

5. Sep 13, 2007 4:53 AM

in response to: BrandonE

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fatdude:
OK, a stupid newbie question. I am fairly new to running ad the thought of LHR running is very appealing. Especially when it seems from reading posts you run better and the lack of injuries speaks for itself if done correctly I believe.

Can a realitvely new runner benefit by starting this method? I am running around 10-12 miles per week.

Just curious...

<HR>

A relatively new runner can, but at 10-12 miles per week, it may
be very slow going. You should check out the low HR training/
basebuilding thread and you'll see a few experiences and comments
on the subject.

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

BrandonE

127 posts since
Nov 7, 2007

6. Sep 13, 2007 9:18 AM

in response to: BrandonE

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fatdude:
OK, a stupid newbie question. I am fairly new to running ad the thought of LHR running is very appealing. Especially when it seems from reading posts you run better and the lack of injuries speaks for itself if done correctly I believe.

Can a realitvely new runner benefit by starting this method? I am running around 10-12 miles per week.

Just curious...

<HR>

I myself am a relatively new runner. I run less than you, as a matter of fact, though I've been crosstraining 2X/wk that probably brings me close to 10mpw. I only run 6-8 mpw right now. It took me 6 weeks to see this change that I posted about, and that's only one day so far. We'll see if the change holds tomorrow.

FWIW, as far as the discussion of weather conditions, I was running on a TM inside at the Y for the whole 6 week period, and for the forseeable future. I'll probably move outside on some days in a couple of weeks, but I've found the even pacing of the TM helpful to me keeping my HR in control so far. I'm sure that will change as I get more running experience, but that's the case for now.

d3finition

96 posts since
Jan 7, 2006

7. Sep 13, 2007 3:34 PM

in response to: BrandonE

Glad to hear you have experienced this natural speed increase and maintaing the same HR.

For me I have never understood how this "form and speed" transition will naturally take place when milege is increased. My running progress takes after a rather consistent cycle. I slow down and increase my milege. Eventually (about 2 weeks) my body will naturally run faster than usual during runs, however, this faster speed comes with higher HR which makes me feel a little uncomfortable somtimes. I usually try to keep my speed low but my body just naturally runs at a faster pace. I train for another 2 weeks or so at that increased pace, while trying to up my milege. At this point I find it hard to increase my milege because I am running too fast. I then drop my speed drastically again and repeat the cycle. Each time I drop my speed at the end of the cycle I am running higher milege and at a faster "slowed down" pace than the preceeding cycle.

On second thoughts this might be due to me consciously trying to hit 180 cadence on all runs. I was running 130s cadence and now if I force myself to run really slow I am doing about 166s and my "normal pace" (which is usually the sped-up pace) is at 180 flat. Hopefully after I am done with this cadence stuff I can feel these kind of significant improvements too.

saviorfaire

188 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

8. Sep 13, 2007 4:20 PM

in response to: BrandonE

quote:<HR>Sorry that's long. I was excited and had to share.

<HR>

I too, have been doing lhr training since about the beginning of August. My MAF is 135. It was a major struggle to stay under that, I was barely crawling, if that.

Fast forward to the middle of Sept, and keeping my nose to the grindstone, I have increased my mileage from about 25mpw to roughly 36-38mpw. Staying under MAF is fairly easy depending on the heat/humidity/etc. I can even make it most of the way up some hills I encounter. And, I am actually engaging in what can be deciphered as running...

Fatdude

93 posts since
Dec 27, 2005

9. Sep 14, 2007 2:32 AM

in response to: BrandonE

OK...I really have been doing some research on LHR training and I really see the benefit on paper.

So we take the 180 and subtract my age which is 39 and it equals 141 and then subtract 10 because I take high blood pressure medicine daily. Which by the way I hate beyond belief.

So, that makes the max heart rate 131, right? and if you subtract 10 that gives you 121 for the training window.

OK, so if I have done my homework correctly, I should keep my heart rate in the range of 121-131 during my workout. So tonight was the first test of the old new training method. I have been running every other day for several weeks and have been averaging two miles per day.

Tonight I basically walked two miles because to keep my heart rate in the calculated window thats all I could do. I jogged very slowly for thirty to forty steps and then walked for a few steaps and then repeated. I covered two miles in 33 minutes using this method and really felt strong at the end but am I really accomplishing anything, I barely broke a sweat.

I'm not complaining, I just want to make sure I am going about this the right way. I have done my research on the web I have not taken the time to order any books yet because of my weird work schedule.

------------------
"One foot in front of the other"
ME[/URL" target="_blank">

BrandonE

127 posts since
Nov 7, 2007

10. Sep 14, 2007 1:47 PM

in response to: BrandonE

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Fatdude:
OK...I really have been doing some research on LHR training and I really see the benefit on paper.

So we take the 180 and subtract my age which is 39 and it equals 141 and then subtract 10 because I take high blood pressure medicine daily. Which by the way I hate beyond belief.

So, that makes the max heart rate 131, right? and if you subtract 10 that gives you 121 for the training window.

OK, so if I have done my homework correctly, I should keep my heart rate in the range of 121-131 during my workout. So tonight was the first test of the old new training method. I have been running every other day for several weeks and have been averaging two miles per day.

Tonight I basically walked two miles because to keep my heart rate in the calculated window thats all I could do. I jogged very slowly for thirty to forty steps and then walked for a few steaps and then repeated. I covered two miles in 33 minutes using this method and really felt strong at the end but am I really accomplishing anything, I barely broke a sweat.

I'm not complaining, I just want to make sure I am going about this the right way. I have done my research on the web I have not taken the time to order any books yet because of my weird work schedule.

<HR>

That sounds right to me, though I'm still really new at this. I run only slightly quicker than you (2mi in 30 min), but I haven't got that 10pt deduction for medicine. I'm sure that makes things tough, and it will probably make it harder for you to commit to stick to, but so far for me, it's been worth it.

Good luck with it. Maybe someone else that has had the medication deduction can chime in and let you know how it's gone for them. You might start your own thread asking about it to get more hits as they may not be reading this one.

theSteveCo

5 posts since
Aug 26, 2007

11. Dec 26, 2007 6:10 AM

in response to: BrandonE

So I bought a new HR monitor 2 days ago... the Polar 625... it seems to read 5 - 10 bpm lower than my previous monitor (an older Polar). Wow... staying in my target range just got a LOT easier! Who knows which is right, but I'm running (pardon the pun) on the assumption that the newer unit is probably right.

I'm 2 weeks into my own (slightly modified) LHR program and have made many observations - all positive. First, if I can keep my HR down for the first mile or two I'm usually golden for the rest of the run. Second, the longer and farther I go (past that first milestone) it seems the more my pace kicks up and/or my HR goes down... one of those situations where the hard work really does show itself in the end.

I have to confess, however, that exclusively running LHR does get boring as heck at times and I just want to open up and RUN (not jog to stay under HRmax).

I'm going to stick with it for 12 weeks though and see what happens after that. 5 lbs gone in 2 weeks doing 20-ish miles/week and cross-training. I'm adding miles to every run and not really feeling it, so there must be some truth to the concept.

http://This message has been edited by theSteveCo (edited Sep-14-2007).

Sep 12, 2007 2:55 PM

First glimpse of success with LHR training

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