As a science major I thoroughly enjoyed your post and method of using the Golden Ratio.

How many weeks do you plan to spend on each plan?

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I would do the 10 milers as singles, not doubles. If your goal involves marathon racing, then you are much better off doing as much mileage in singles as possible. If you want to constrain yourself to one hour runs on weekdays, then I hope you are relatively fast... Alternatively, you could wake up earlier or go to sleep later to get your run in.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by streak790:
This is an admittedly geeky thing but thought it could be fun. I'm planning a long-term plan for running marathons in 2 years, basically starting from the couch. A lot of basebuilding schedules just don't click with me so I figured I'd try to create my own, while holding onto basic principles prescribed by Jack Daniels and others. I decided to play around with the golden ratio (0.618034) derived from the Fibonacci sequence, which I'm sure a lot of you are familiar with from the DaVinci Code and/or math class. My plan is to work toward a goal weekly mileage for BASEBUILDING ONLY that would put me in great condition for starting to train for marathons.

Constraints:
Long runs not to exceed 30% of weekly mileage
Alternate hard and easy days
Start doubles around 55 miles/week
Weekday runs not to exceed one hour each
One day off a week (a necessity for me)

Goal weekly plan for BASEBUILDING phase (55 miles/week):
Sunday = 16.2 miles = 0.618304 x 26.21876 miles
Monday = 6.2 miles = (0.618304)^3 x 26.21876 miles
Tuesday = 10.0 miles* = (0.618304)^2 x 26.21876 miles
Wednesday = 6.2 miles
Thursday = 10.0 miles*
Friday = 6.2 miles
Saturday = rest
*10-mile days are to be broken up into 2 separate runs
I like that this plan consists of 10K and 10M segments

In order to work up to that 55 miles/week plan, I came up with two intermediate plans by successively multiplying 0.618304 by each of those numbers:

Starting weekly plan (21 miles/week):
Sunday = 6.2 miles (10K distance - could use races as training runs)
Monday = 2.4 miles
Tuesday = 3.8 miles
Wednesday = 2.4 miles
Thursday = 3.8 miles
Friday = 2.4 miles
Saturday = rest

Intermediate weekly plan (34 miles/week):
Sunday = 10.0 miles
Monday = 3.8 miles
Tuesday = 6.2 miles
Wednesday = 3.8 miles
Thursday = 6.2 miles
Friday = 3.8 miles
Saturday = rest

After I move from the 21 mpw plan to the 34 to the 55, then I can start getting into some real training plans involving tempo runs, hill work, speedwork, and 20+ mile runs. I don't have any ideas about that just yet.

So my question to you all is, are there any problems with this basebuilding schedule, or anything you'd like to add? As a scientist, I know that things can look great in theory, but in practice is a whole other story.<HR>

First of all, as others have done, applaud--quite interesting and well-thought out. Second, I just can't help but applaud even more to those who came up with VERY similar program without thinking too much--in other words, from their own experience. Basicaly, what you did is to prove how right those "previous" coaches had been.

And, I hate to be the one to bring a negative comment; if I see a problem with it; well, my question is; have you actualy tried such a formula in real life? I mean, it looks clean and cool and great on paper; using fancy formula and all. But when it comes down to it; it's a human being--a chunk of flesh with feelings, who would do it. Just the other day, I was taking to my client about sending this testing kit to Japan. Upon realizing most of the "kit" were readily available in Japan as well, I suggested that, instead of sending them all across the ocean, point out what they need and call it a day. "Well," he said, "I want to eliminate any possible mistake, I'd rather send the whole thing..." I pointed out that the only thing I can see as an issue is "a human error." Well, guess what; we did the test ourselves and it didn't work out--it was a human error right here at our own backyard! In a very practical sense, what we do as a hunan being CAN be very different from the number game on paper. You might see a very nice progress from one month to the next, from the first year to the next. But more often than not, things don't really work out that way. Some of us respond better to a certain type of stress than others; some might progress much faster than others; or slower... The only way to ensure that the program is taylored to YOU is to see how YOU respond to it. One long run with two medium long runs during the week sounds very nice (just like the original Lydiard program); but two of those might be enough; actually three COULD be too much. When do you decide to go double? By numbers (when you reach 50MPW) or when you are actually ready? Or you may actually require this easy morning exercise to loosen up. How would you know when it's necessary? The only way you know is to listen to your inner coach.

One other factor could be the length of time--2 years. I hear some young runners say, "I'm going to spend next 5 years building superb aerobic base..." That's awfully a long time to dedicate yourself to build a base. In fact, it's probably too **** long to be a base building monk. Life has to be enjoyed. Usually I tend to prescribe anywherer from 10 weeks to 15 to prepare for the marathon. I feel anything longer that could be detremental to keeping motivation high. In other words, you get bored with it. .

Indeed, what you did is quite interesting. But the real-life appication is everything.

Jotting things on paper that far ahead never worked for me. I became too hard pressed to folllow the plan and in the process didn't listen to warning sighns that my body gave me. Truth is my body just didn't care what was writin on paper. Anymore I train from day to day basing my next day on what happened today.

Thats just me though, it might work for you.

I used to spend hours designing the "perfect" training plan to get me from where I was (25-ish mpw) to something higher. None of them really worked. So I'd go back to the drawing board to design the even more perfect plan.

What I found was the best way to train was to listen to my body. I realized 3 weeks in between long runs was optimal for me. Not 1 or 2 as many plans prescribe. I found I can run at least 3 days in a row before taking a day off. I found it's better to take a day or 2 off before a long run rather than after. I prefer to run more by time than by distance, and I don't plan in advance how many miles I will run in a given week. I figure I'll be able to run on certain days and get in, say, at least an hour, maybe 2 or 2.5 per day, but I never know until I get out there how I'm going to feel and therefore how far and fast I'm going to run. But I run as much as I can, as much as I want, and over the last year have increased by base mileage by 2.5x. I'm at 60-80 mpw now.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by exciton:
Where I disagree pretty heavily with Nobby is in his suggestion that two years base building is too long. I think it's perfect and it's what I advise any new runner to do, based on my own experience and my observations of many others. Ten to fifteen weeks to go from zero to marathon is ridiculously short. Ridiculously. It puts you running a marathon right in the midst of the injury danger zone for beginning runners. You would just be begging for burnout and injury. It takes years, and oftentimes many marathons thereafter, to build base and run close to your potential.
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Okay, with this, I'd need to clarify. I didn't mean to jump from "zero to marathon" in 10 weeks. What I meant is I'd prefer 10~15 weeks for the marathon preparation "from a certain level". While I prefer not to put any number on it; I'd like to see, in general, one who has gotten to the point where he/she can comfortably run at least an hour to an hour and a half before he/she starts the preparation. How long would it take to get up to that level? Who knows...??? It could be as little as 3 months; it could take a couple of years. Well, even Arthur Lydiard took 8 months to get a bunch of old heart attack patient to complete a marathon; I would not dare say I could do it, from a scratch, in 10 weeks!