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Click to view bigapplepie's profile We're Not Worthy 2,636 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

Sep 20, 2007 9:22 PM

The Truth About Mileage Redux

From November's Running Times:

quote:<HR>In a recent issue (May 2007, Karp, "Lydiard Revisited") I was quoted as stating that Arthur Lydiard probably ruined more runners than he produced. I must apologize. It was a stupid comment that I regret. That is what happens when your mouth gets ahead of your brain. Lesson learned: When a reporter asks for you opinion, it is not always wise to give it. Better yet, don't give interviews (which I will not do again)!Dave Costill<HR>
Click to view willamona's profile Legend 384 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
1. Sep 20, 2007 10:18 PM in response to: bigapplepie
Click to view rengle's profile Pro 94 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
2. Sep 21, 2007 12:14 AM in response to: bigapplepie
That was a classy thing to do.
Click to view tigger077's profile Legend 691 posts since
Nov 19, 1999
3. Sep 21, 2007 6:45 AM in response to: bigapplepie
I have a niggle in the back of my neck saying that Nobby was somehow involved in the follow-up. Good job Nobby!
Click to view mrinertia's profile Legend 1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
4. Sep 21, 2007 8:48 AM in response to: bigapplepie
I just got mine yesterday and saw that. I will say this, though - the truth about mileage thread changed the way I view my training and what I may be capable of. It was the first time I saw Nobby post. Some of the things that he and some others said, really struck a chord with me.

Do you get the impression that Costill has changed his opinion or just regrets vocalizing it?
Click to view runawayjesse's profile Legend 538 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
5. Sep 21, 2007 8:56 AM in response to: bigapplepie
I wonder what Richard99 thinks of that.
Click to view VictorN's profile Legend 406 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
6. Sep 21, 2007 11:11 AM in response to: bigapplepie
Wait. He says "When a reporter asks for you opinion, it is not always wise to give it." I read this as his saying "I believe what I said, but I shouldn't have said it."

Is there any other way to read this?

Victor


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www.competitiverunner.com[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view mrinertia's profile Legend 1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
7. Sep 21, 2007 11:22 AM in response to: bigapplepie
quote:<HR>Originally posted by VictorN:
Wait. He says "When a reporter asks for you opinion, it is not always wise to give it." I read this as his saying "I believe what I said, but I shouldn't have said it."

Is there any other way to read this?

Victor


<HR>


I got the same thing from that. My guess is that he heard numerous fervent opinions that ran contrary to his own.
Click to view Richard99's profile Legend 351 posts since
Oct 25, 2004
8. Sep 21, 2007 11:32 AM in response to: bigapplepie
quote:<HR>Originally posted by runawayjesse:
I wonder what Richard99 thinks of that.<HR>


I think he regrets expressing his opinion the way he did.



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Richard
World's Fastest Slow Guy
www.powerrunning.com
Click to view fredurie's profile Legend 1,979 posts since
Aug 21, 2002
9. Dec 26, 2007 6:21 AM in response to: bigapplepie
He's probably biased against mileage:

"To quote Costill directly: 'Most competitive swimming events last less than two minutes. How can training for 3 to 4 hours per day at speeds that are markedly slower than competitive pace prepare the swimmer for the maximal efforts of competition?' Research from France supports Costill's conclusions."

So a 1:44 runner at 800 meters really didn't have to put in 100 mile weeks
and hilly 22 milers.

Not.

http://This message has been edited by fredurie (edited Sep-21-2007).
Click to view MrPHinNJ's profile Pro 139 posts since
Oct 10, 2007
11. Sep 21, 2007 12:45 PM in response to: bigapplepie
quote:<HR>I will say this, though - the truth about mileage thread changed the way I view my training and what I may be capable of.<HR>


Longtime lurker. I agree. The truth about mileage thread couldn't have come at a better time for me. I injured a hamstring this spring (over)training for a half marathon. I read through the "truth" thread and reviewed my logs, coming to the conclusion that I was running everything way too fast. I had gotten away with this for years but never ran much mileage (25-30 per week). Before the injury I had already signed up for a fall marathon (10/7).

Since I could run slow without pain, I decided to go through with the marathon training. I run 5 days a week and spent June/July building base, all slow. Starting in August I focused on two quality runs a week, a midweek ~12 miler (progression run) and the weekend long run. I was able to get a 19, 20, and 22 miler in on alternating weeks. These runs I tried to push the pace the last 3-4 miles. The other three runs during the week were about 50-60 minutes slow. From the beginning of August until now I was at 45-52 miles a week. All through this training period the hamstring has improved.

This is my first marathon, and before this training cycle I had never run this amount of weekly mileage (still a low amount for many here). I am convinced that had I not injured myself this spring that it surely would have happened over the summer due to running everything too fast while building base.

I had never thought that you could get faster by running (mostly) slower. Now I am convinced of it. Thanks to all that contributed to the convincing.
Click to view Biophilia's profile Pro 171 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
12. Sep 21, 2007 12:49 PM in response to: bigapplepie
where is this truth about mileage thread?
Click to view rengle's profile Pro 94 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
14. Sep 21, 2007 3:03 PM in response to: bigapplepie
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tigger:
I have a niggle in the back of my neck saying that Nobby was somehow involved in the follow-up. Good job Nobby!<HR>


You have intelligent niggles. Nobby did get in touch with Dave Costill and asked for a clarification. I imagine Nobby will find this thread sooner or later, he's travelling now, and tell the story better than I can.
If I remember our (Nobby's and my) conversation correctly, Dr. Costill had said something along the lines of "A lot of people learned about Lydiard, assumed they needed to do 100 mile weeks when that was way too much for them and they ended up hurt or sick."
That's not an exact quote by any means, but it was along those lines. The point Dr. Costill was trying to make with his original quote was that many people misunderstood what they had to do in order to do "Lydiard training" and didn't fare well.
I'll add here that I would fall into that category. My first go at doing "Lydiard" was in about 1973 or 74. I was already doing the 100 mile weeks, but slowly. I read a quote from Arthur saying that once you'd worked up to 100 mile weeks you should run that distance faster each week. I took that to mean that if I'd run a 15 mile course in 1:50:00 last week then I needed to run at least 1:49 something this week. I did that for about three weeks and could hardly walk by the end. At that point I decided that Lydaird training would only work for someone a lot tougher and more talented than I was, so I went back to running my 100 mile weeks slowly and comfortably.
Of course as time passed I did get faster, much faster, without increased effort. It wasn't until I met Arthur in 1977 that I leanred that was exactly how the whole thing was supposed to work and that my original experience was not at all what he had in mind.