Hard work versus natural talent

Support | Event Directors & Organizers

Search Cool Running Community

Browse Cool Running

CoolRunning.com > Cool Running Community > Basic Training >

1 2 3 ... 5 Previous Next

Tom Wagner Jr.

2 posts since
Mar 28, 2007

Oct 3, 2007 3:12 PM

Hard work versus natural talent

I have a goal of qualifying in 2009 for the 2010 Boston marathon. For my age group that would mean a time under 3:15. I was a bit alarmed when a marathon I signed up to do in April 2008 considers runners under a 3:20 time elite. I thought that with enough training I could achieve the Boston qualifying time but I in no way ever thought of myself as an elite runner. So I was wondering for any that might have qualified for Boston before, is it something that a normal person can do with hard work and proper training or is it something that you must have a natural 'talent' for?

I have ran several half marathons and two marathons. My times have been decent in the half, not great in the full, but I haven't really trained properly for either (especially the full) due to other issues (ie young kids). It's not like I want to just drop my marathon time by an hour and a half in one race, I plan to run several marathons, hopefully improving in each, culminating with a qualifyer in 2009. By that time I should have enough time to properly devote to training.

If anyone has experience in setting a similar goal and dropping a bunch of time off a marathon I'd be interested in hearing about it. Even if someone tells me I can't do it I'll still try, because really that's the only way to prove it one way or the other.

mrinertia

1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

1. Oct 3, 2007 3:25 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

I am going to qualify for Boston by the end of 2009 as well. There, I said it. It's been floating around in my mind and now it's out there and official.

About 10% of the marathon population can qualify for Boston, but I think that might be a bit skewed. First off, MANY people don't care about qualifying. A large part of the marathon population just doesn't have that as a goal. One thing about talent is that talent/genetic giftedness is almost impossible to quantify. I do beleive that most people COULD qualify for Boston IF THEY'RE TRULY WILLING TO BUST THEIR HUMP, TRAIN SMART, TRAIN HARD AND TRAIN CONSISTENTLY. I've talked with many people who simply say "I'll never BQ" but when pressed for specific reasons aren't able to produce any.

So, looks like you and I have the same goal. I'm sure there are others. Are you interested in starting a thread for a long term BQ, especially for runners who have turned a marathon or two with times that may preliminarily indicate Boston may be out of reach?

Southern Man

757 posts since
Apr 19, 2006

2. Oct 3, 2007 4:15 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Qualifying for Boston makes you in no way, shape, or form and elite runner. Qualifying for Boston makes you a pretty good recreational runner. Nothing more, nothing less.

Some people can qualify for Boston off of a great deal of "talent" and not a whole lot of work. Other people have less "talent" but by dedicated and hard training can achieve the standard. I know a number of runners who will probably never achieve that standard despite working pretty hard at it. They just have very little talent for running at all. They are a minority. I am convinced that most people can qualify for Boston if they want it enough and are willing to work hard for it over a period of several years.

What your own place on the talent/hard work continuum has yet to be determined. Only you can decide if that is a goal you really want to pursue with the knowledge that you may not make it.

Southern Man

------------------
We're on a road to nowhere. Come on along.

Brian McN

240 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

3. Oct 3, 2007 4:26 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Your willingness to put in the hard work is way more important than any talent you may have. Also as Southern Man has said Boston qualifying in no way make you an elite runner.

AKTrail

360 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

4. Dec 26, 2007 6:40 AM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Agree with what others have said. But also check the type of course for your April 2008 marathon? I'm guessing it's not Pike's Peak, but if it has substantial hills, times may be slower than a flat fast race. I think the men's record for a Fbks marathon (3500ft of hills) is near 2:45 and the women's about 3:15 (give or take 5 min) and very few men finish under 3:15. Some of the runners here are quick by national standards, so it's not a matter of Alaskans being slow (we've got the whole gradient from fast to slow, just like other places).

PS: You might also check what "elite" means in that context. It may be a "preferred" start. Some races might have elites starting in front followed by faster recreational runners ("preferred") then others. That eliminates some traffic jams at start.

http://This message has been edited by AKTrail (edited Oct-03-2007).

RunnersHigh

259 posts since
Nov 24, 2006

5. Oct 3, 2007 4:35 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Qualifying for Boston is not that hard in the big scheme of things. I believe it takes an average amount of talent, the right plan, dedication and a bit of work. I've qualified the last 3 years, am in my mid 40's and run at the most 35-40 miles a week. Being a good father and husband is much tougher in my mind and also more important. Boston is just a goal for some because it's there and it can feel like an accomplishment when many don't qualify. But I agree that many don't really dedicate themselves to that one goal and that is the reason why more don't qualify. By the way, my last marathon was a 2:58....I am faaaaaaaaaar from elite. The difference between me and the guy who runs a 2:40 is huge. Everyone has a different way of defining elite. For me, having been there in another sport, if you can financially support yourself during AND after your competitive years, then you are/were an elite runner. Not too many can claim that. Tatooing 26.2 on your arm and running a 2:40 marathon does not make you an elite runner, at least not in my eyes.

Tom Wagner Jr.

2 posts since
Mar 28, 2007

6. Oct 3, 2007 4:50 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Thanks for the replies. Yeah I was by no means saying that if I qualified for Boston I would consider myself elite. Just that having the other marathon say that got me wondering how hard it would be for someone with average talent but willing to give it a proper try. It is definately just something to do for the sake of having done it, not like a life's quest or anything. I'll give it a shot and see what happens.

jparry

111 posts since
Oct 27, 2005

7. Oct 3, 2007 5:38 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Sounds like the term elite has been used very broadly by marketing folks and is by now a red herring. What matters as someone alluded to is running a marathon, or qualifying for Boston because, like Everest "it's there." One person's molehill is another's nearly unattainable mountain. Let's forget about times for a minute (difficult I know) and remember the important thing is one's own sense of achievement, not arbitrary labels. Best of luck with your goals and enjoy the journey.

jparry

111 posts since
Oct 27, 2005

8. Oct 3, 2007 5:50 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

ATLrunner

159 posts since
Sep 4, 2007

9. Oct 3, 2007 6:47 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Muppets:
Thanks for the replies. Yeah I was by no means saying that if I qualified for Boston I would consider myself elite. Just that having the other marathon say that got me wondering how hard it would be for someone with average talent but willing to give it a proper try. It is definately just something to do for the sake of having done it, not like a life's quest or anything. I'll give it a shot and see what happens.<HR>

"Average" talent is more than enough to qualify for Boston. It's not easy, but if you put in the work in training you'll be fine.

divechief

361 posts since
Aug 14, 2007

10. Oct 3, 2007 8:09 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

I'll throw this out for discussion.

I think most "average" runners can obtain a BQ if they are willing to work for it,

The less "natural talent" you have, the harder you will have to work.

The harder you work, the greater the chance of injury.

injuries of course, could derail plans for a BQ.

I think 2 years of marathon training/running should give an "average runner" an idea of how hard he will need to work.

Dave

DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

11. Oct 3, 2007 8:31 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

Are there still people who believe running talent is genetic? I hope that's not where this thread is going.

marunr

162 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

12. Oct 3, 2007 9:40 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:
Are there still people who believe running talent is genetic? I hope that's not where this thread is going.<HR>

???

JimR022

1,008 posts since
Jan 16, 2002

13. Oct 3, 2007 10:33 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Muppets:
I was a bit alarmed when a marathon I signed up to do in April 2008 considers runners under a 3:20 time elite.<HR>

You may want to measure the course yourself.

Between talent and hard work, the most important thing is hard work. Work towards getting your overall mileage up there. Don't worry about very long runs until the time comes.

Biophilia

171 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

14. Oct 3, 2007 10:53 PM

in response to: Tom Wagner Jr.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:
Are there still people who believe running talent is genetic? I hope that's not where this thread is going.<HR>

I'll bite

I think the definition of talent is "innate ability". That would imply genetics. But going along with the disease debate you might say that running talent is like a disease (or a beneficial disease), and it's expression is dependent on environmental factors.

1 2 3 ... 5 Previous Next Go to original post

Oct 3, 2007 3:12 PM

Hard work versus natural talent

New Runners

Training

Competition

Age Groups

Fitness

The Lighter Side

Feedback

Related Links