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Click to view tmcaboy's profile Amateur 16 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
31. Oct 8, 2007 1:40 PM in response to: newguy56
Yes, Chad did have a heart condition. Nothing to do with the heat. Here's the article: http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071008/NEWS06/71008032[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view IceStorm213's profile Legend 354 posts since
Nov 1, 2005
32. Dec 26, 2007 6:42 AM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sparrowface:
You're an idiot if the cops tell you to stop and you keep going.

<HR>


What do "the cops" know about me? Did they train for 6 months for the event? Do they know if I'm hydrated? Do they know if I've been training in the heat? Do they know that I've run 3 hours under the same conditions? And how on earth can a policeman tell me to stop running? I

I may be an idiot for many reasons, but this would not be one of them.

I have no qualms with police taking to the roads and informing runners that the gig is up. The race is canceled, etc. In fact, in order to limit liability for injuries suffered by dehydrated runners, they probably HAD to tell everyone to stop

The police also provided those runners who wanted to stop but didn't want to admit defeat a cover to submit to common sense ("I would have kept going but the police refused to let me.")

But one size does not fit all. The truth is that distance runners, almost by definition, are stubborn and goal-oriented. Some runners may have been equipped to handle the heat. There were others, certainly, who were "idiots" and should have stopped.

Now, I didn't run yesterday. Would I have stopped? Not because a "cop" told me to do so.
Click to view jingchunyu's profile Pro 66 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
33. Oct 8, 2007 1:50 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by martinjames:
Now, I didn't run yesterday. Would I have stopped? Not because a "cop" told me to do so. <HR>


Can one be arrested, charged, tried, and convicted for disobeying a cop's order?
Click to view RunnersHigh's profile Legend 259 posts since
Nov 24, 2006
34. Oct 8, 2007 1:52 PM in response to: newguy56
Well, I just got back from Chicago myself. I've been humbled! I've run many a marathon but not like this one. I, along with everyone there, new it was going to be difficult. My plan was altered from trying to run a pr of sub 2:55 to just running a pace run for the first half then jog in with others. WRONG! I got to about mile 11 and was having difficulty getting air. As others may have said, I was totally soaked from head to toe in sweat and was starting to feel a cramp come on. I slowed to a jog (about 7:45 to 8:00 pace) and by mile 18 I was TOAST. I cramped every where...legs, arms, toes. All I could do was walk it off, start jogging again when the cramps subsided but was eventually reduced to a walk/shuffle for the last 6 miles just wanting to finish.
Now I know there will be some that will say that I didn't drink enough or take in the right amount of sodium....whatever. Well, I think you may be right! I thought I had but I guess to have fallen apart so badly, I must not have. My plan to run the first half at my pace was a bad one. I learned my lesson! But, I never ran a marathon under those conditions. I've run in hotter weather before but not at race pace for that far. It's hard to explain unless you were there but it was friggin the roughest race I've ever completed. I'm so sorry to hear that someone died and, as of this morning, 5 still in critical condition in hospitals.
By the way, the aid station were fine where I was but you could see that the volunteers were having difficulty keeping up. The crowds who come out though to cheer you on were INCREDIBLE! By far the best city marathon someone could run, but not this year.
Click to view RunnersHigh's profile Legend 259 posts since
Nov 24, 2006
35. Dec 26, 2007 6:42 AM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by martinjames:
What do "the cops" know about me? Did they train for 6 months for the event? Do they know if I'm hydrated? Do they know if I've been training in the heat? Do they know that I've run 3 hours under the same conditions? And how on earth can a policeman tell me to stop running? I

I may be an idiot for many reasons, but this would not be one of them.

I have no qualms with police taking to the roads and informing runners that the gig is up. The race is canceled, etc. In fact, in order to limit liability for injuries suffered by dehydrated runners, they probably HAD to tell everyone to stop

The police also provided those runners who wanted to stop but didn't want to admit defeat a cover to submit to common sense ("I would have kept going but the police refused to let me.")

But one size does not fit all. The truth is that distance runners, almost by definition, are stubborn and goal-oriented. Some runners may have been equipped to handle the heat. There were others, certainly, who were "idiots" and should have stopped.

Now, I didn't run yesterday. Would I have stopped? Not because a "cop" told me to do so.
<HR>


I agree with some of what you have said here, but to see the people dropping off the side of the roads like they were (and I was closer to the front) what were they supposed to do??? Apparently, they (the city of Chicago) ran out of ambulances and medical teams to help those who were already in need of medical attention. If the city no longer has ambulances of emergency personnel to help, I think it's time to call it a day. The Chicago local paper this morning said that it was the Fire Chief who cancelled the race, not the race director. Again, I understand where you?re coming from, I also would be bummed out if I felt I could finish but was told to stop, but there were too many others that would have needed help that probably would not have gotten it fast enough if allowed to press on. There will be other marathons.
Click to view mcsolar99's profile Legend 1,018 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
36. Oct 8, 2007 2:35 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by jingchunyu:
I think so because a person can not die without a reason. But some pre-existing condition are not detectable
without expensive and sophiscated medical procedures
so telling the people with pre-existing condtion not to run
won't help a lot.
<HR>


my point is this: going into a race knowing that you have a heart problem and then passing away is a very different situation from going into a race and dying from complications due to heat stroke.

it sounds like this runner's condition often is detected by a doctor listening with a simple stethoscope. i know the runner who passed away in the tucson marathon last year was fully aware of his condition (a similar valve problem) and chose to race in spite of his doctor's advice.

non-running america has lots of trouble with heart health, and many people i know don't change their diets to lower their cholesterol and don't exercise to reduce their blood pressure. the running deaths that i'm directly aware of involve runners who seem to have a similar blind-spot, and unfortunately it puts them in a tragic situation.

if any good can result from this runner's tragedy, maybe it can inspire people to get their hearts checked. get a simple check-up, and a simple cholesterol blood test at your next opportunity.
Click to view tmcaboy's profile Amateur 16 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
37. Oct 8, 2007 2:43 PM in response to: newguy56
Again, the runner who died did not die from the heat. And the others who were sick or just got an IV were only inconvenienced. I went down after a race once and was back running the next day.
Click to view RunnersHigh's profile Legend 259 posts since
Nov 24, 2006
38. Oct 8, 2007 2:48 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tmcaboy:
Again, the runner who died did not die from the heat. And the others who were sick or just got an IV were only inconvenienced. I went down after a race once and was back running the next day. <HR>


What about the 5 that are still in Critical condition as I'm writing this as reported just a half hour ago on CNN? The hospital doctor is saying that some of the 100+ people brought to the hospital have internal temps of 107 degrees, the point where brain cells start to die off. Were all these people just inconvenienced?
Click to view exciton's profile Legend 317 posts since
Nov 2, 2004
39. Oct 8, 2007 2:59 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sparrowface:
Not to poo-poo the Dean Karnazes of the world, but they are soemthing special and prepare specifically for such nutty things like the Badwater. But the other 99.9% of us are amateurs who should use common sense when it comes to running a marathon in high heat. If it's going to be 89 degrees, stay home or go out and see the host city. Find another marathon.<HR>


Actually, the DK's of the world are not as special as you think. They just train for the events they run. Lots of people run Badwater who couldn't break 4:30 in the marathon.

Running long distances in the heat requires training and experience. I ran a 50K this summer in heat approaching 100 degrees. I did fine and had no problems. Am I still an idiot? I guess I am since the temperature was above 89 degrees (the well-known and established idiot cutoff).

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My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view exciton's profile Legend 317 posts since
Nov 2, 2004
40. Oct 8, 2007 3:02 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:
For what it's worth, I was 300 lbs. five years ago. Now, I run a mid to low 17 5k...
<HR>


By the way, I think this is quite remarkable. Good job.

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My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view tuscaloosarunner's profile Legend 728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006
41. Oct 8, 2007 3:10 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by exciton:
By the way, I think this is quite remarkable. Good job.

<HR>


Thanks a lot! I notice you're profile lists you in AL: where are you--I suppose you can glean my location from my cryptic name...
Click to view dg12002's profile Legend 622 posts since
Aug 26, 2003
42. Oct 8, 2007 3:17 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by martinjames:
What do "the cops" know about me?
And how on earth can a policeman tell me to stop running?
<HR>


Theyre given authority over you concerning keeping the peace and order. They are not the bad guys nor their leaders, but it's always unruly people who screw up our socities.

It's more than the liability issues you mentioned, that is such a small perspective.
Click to view tmcaboy's profile Amateur 16 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
43. Oct 8, 2007 3:31 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by RunnersHigh43:
What about the 5 that are still in Critical condition as I'm writing this as reported just a half hour ago on CNN? The hospital doctor is saying that some of the 100+ people brought to the hospital have internal temps of 107 degrees, the point where brain cells start to die off. Were all these people just inconvenienced?

<HR>


There were never 100+ people even taken to the hospital! TWO are in critical condition. I'm just sayin' that when you have this many people race, odds are of something bad happening to someone regardless of the weather.
Click to view AndyHass's profile Legend 1,385 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
44. Oct 8, 2007 3:32 PM in response to: newguy56
quote:<HR>Originally posted by tuscaloosarunner:
I don't agree with this: Andy's point is that people can get in shape and off the couch by running shorter races more in line with their fitness. Everyone wants to hop off the couch and go run a marathon in 4 months. This is setting people up to have a painful experience--and often not stick with their fitness program.


<HR>


Exactly my point. There is a lot more to running and fitness than staggering through a marathon for which you are not prepared. And since marathons are run at times of year when the weather can be anything, what prepares you for a good day will NOT prepare you for days like Sunday.

Who ever said 1st time marathoners? Plenty of people do this more than once. I know a few personally who were out there Sunday.