So Many of you do not understand the heat and marathon running.

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AndyHass

1,385 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

45. Oct 8, 2007 3:43 PM

in response to: newguy56

quote:<HR>Originally posted by tmcaboy:
There were never 100+ people even taken to the hospital! TWO are in critical condition. I'm just sayin' that when you have this many people race, odds are of something bad happening to someone regardless of the weather. <HR>

From the Chicago Tribune: "Fire officials said about 315 runners were taken from the course by ambulance" Maybe they didn't go all the way to the hospital but it's pretty severe.
Running out of supplies, wow. I just talked to the wife of someone who ran, she said she saw convenience store owners caring bags of ice and cases of water out of their stores and onto the course to hand out. That says something good for the people of Chicago.

tmcaboy

16 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

46. Oct 8, 2007 3:50 PM

in response to: newguy56

Strangely, an AP photographer got a picture of Chad on the course at a water station before he died. His is the second and third picture.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/07/chicago.marathon.ap/index.html#cnnSTCPhoto[/URL" target="_blank">

mep5555

251 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

47. Oct 8, 2007 4:17 PM

in response to: newguy56

quote:<HR>Originally posted by gbrunner4:
mep5555:

It doesn't matter how used to the weather you are if you don't have water. I "ran" Chicago yesterday and started with the 4:30 pace group. I did not get anything to drink, not water nor gatorade until mile 8. The stations were already empty by that time. The remainder of the race was a scramble for water too. So I don't care how used to the weather you are, nobody is prepared to do it without adequate hydration.

I do not fault the race organizers for "cancelling" the race because that probably saved some lives. But the heat was not a surprise and they clearly did not have enough water and gatorade for the slower runners.

Kudos to the volunteers and spectators who were going above and beyond what they signed up for.

<HR>

Oh I definitely agree with this...there was no excuse for what happened with the water there yesterday. What I don't agree with is that 10,000 people didn't show up because it was going to be above 80, or the suggestion that anyone who does show up above 80 has o common sense. Maybe that's true if you live WAY north, but not down here in the south...and many from here ran Chicago yesterday. I'm also sure that many who kept running after being informed the race was cancelled had their own water with them as well to stay hydrated....that doesn't make them idiots.

mep5555

251 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

48. Oct 8, 2007 4:28 PM

in response to: newguy56

quote:<HR>Originally posted by exciton:
Actually, the DK's of the world are not as special as you think. They just train for the events they run. Lots of people run Badwater who couldn't break 4:30 in the marathon.

Running long distances in the heat requires training and experience. I ran a 50K this summer in heat approaching 100 degrees. I did fine and had no problems. Am I still an idiot? I guess I am since the temperature was above 89 degrees (the well-known and established idiot cutoff).

<HR>

Nah...the official high in Chicago yesterday was only 87, and that occurred well after the race had been cancelled. The temp at noon was 84, so the idiot cutoff has to be below that. The dewpoint was 68, so the temp + dewpoint was 152. My rule is anything 150 and above, forget about any pace goals...130-149 will slow you down some. Where I live, virtually all runs in June-August are above 150, with 50% or more above 160. 150 or above is very common here though as early as April and as late as October and rarer in March and November.

Anyone who was well hydrated and had given up any pace goals and was well prepared for the marathon distance should have been able to run 26.2 yesterday in Chicago. The "idiots" would be the ones who did not hydrate (possibly not totally their fault from what I've heard!), were still trying to BQ or run PR's, or were not well trained for the distance.

mep5555

251 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

49. Oct 8, 2007 4:53 PM

in response to: newguy56

I hate it when people delete their posts hours after making them...there should be a small finite amount of time within which you can delete your own posts...

QuickSilver096

188 posts since
May 23, 2007

50. Oct 8, 2007 6:10 PM

in response to: newguy56

Just to add to the discussion, it wasn't just the high temps (88) but the humidity (80%) that combined to make it tough going. There was no wind. The race started at 78 degrees and had climbed to 88 by the time it was stopped. The shade didn't help much, because you still felt dehydrated by the time you got to the next aid station.

In fairness to those who experienced the carnage, I can only say you had to be there to know what it was like. I've run in higher temps but yesterday at Chicago was something else.

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QuickSilver
-------------------------------
natural running (or how I learned to run from pre-historic predators)

My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

Granitetread

5 posts since
Sep 24, 2003

51. Oct 8, 2007 8:09 PM

in response to: newguy56

I think you are correct on this point. I suspect that in a race that requires no qualification, 5-10% who register do not show.

I was set to run my third Chicago in a row and changed to Maine marathon the same day. I met several people who had done the same day. I had never switched a race like this, and in talking to some runners, it seems many have contingencies like this; they will have a back up race if the weather is hostile.
Still a sad day for our sport for the non-runner who reads the press.

kate60095

105 posts since
Jun 26, 2006

52. Dec 26, 2007 6:42 AM

in response to: newguy56

Honestly, I think Chicago was more about liability than anything else. THEY, (the organizers) ran out of race support so they shut it down. Yes that was a good decision based on the fact that they could not support the racers; but it sucked in terms of the planning. C'Mon they knew it was oing to to be hot.

FYI, in the South we race all the time in the heat and people don't die!! Except for the Army 10 miler. But like everywhere, no one can account for illness.

http://This message has been edited by kate60 (edited Oct-08-2007).

mep5555

251 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

53. Oct 8, 2007 9:38 PM

in response to: newguy56

quote:<HR>Originally posted by QuickSilver:

Just to add to the discussion, it wasn't just the high temps (88) but the humidity (80%) that combined to make it tough going. There was no wind. The race started at 78 degrees and had climbed to 88 by the time it was stopped. The shade didn't help much, because you still felt dehydrated by the time you got to the next aid station.

In fairness to those who experienced the carnage, I can only say you had to be there to know what it was like. I've run in higher temps but yesterday at Chicago was something else.

<HR>

Official temp in Chicago at 8 am was 69 and at noon it was 84. I'm not sure where all these reports of temps near 80 at the start are coming from...I'm getting my info from official weather obs in Chicago. I'm sure in the sun it was 80 by 8 am and probably 100 by noon, but temp is never measured in the sun.

Dewpoint at 8 am was 66 and at noon it was 68. That means the RH at 8 am was 90% and at noon it was 59%. But RH is irrelevant...it's dewpoint that matters. No doubt that 84 with a 68 dewpoint at noon in October is brutal in Chicago for a marathon...especially without water for a lot of people. People who came from the southern U.S. to run the marathon likely fared much better than people from the northern U.S. since those weather conditions were no worse than what we have seen for months in the south.

The weather conditions in Chicago were no worse than what is typical for some marathons in more southern climates. What made Chicago so bad was the apparent lack of water for many participants and also the sheer number of participants.

protoplasm72

106 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

54. Oct 9, 2007 1:38 AM

in response to: newguy56

The official weather readings are taken at O'hare which is not that close to the race. There were temperature signs along the course that were reading 90's. There were also some shaded areas that felt relatively cool but towards the end of the race there is less and less shade.

Maybe it was different further back in the race but I never heard police officers saying the race was canceled. At a water station around mile 23 I heard a volunteer on a loud speaker make the announcement for the first time and that was like 45 minutes after they supposedly canceled it. I kept going at my greatly reduced pace cause I still felt fine. Well fine is the wrong word but not in danger of heat stroke or anything.

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Me[/URL" target="_blank">

Ice Cream

602 posts since
Dec 28, 2003

55. Oct 9, 2007 6:09 AM

in response to: newguy56

In th thread "afraid. Vry afraid. by JulieH478, I wrote, first reply to her question, that she should be prepared to quit. I was the only one who replied with that "negative" advice, but I think it was common sense advice. Rally,if you deem something dangerous, you should think twice before doing it. I do not believe swimmong is dangerous, bit I would not do it in 40 degree water without a wetsuit, either.

tuscaloosarunner

728 posts since
Apr 7, 2006

56. Oct 9, 2007 7:19 AM

in response to: newguy56

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Ice Cream:
... I do not believe swimmong is dangerous, bit I would not do it in 40 degree water without a wetsuit, either. <HR>

This is an interesting analogy. In other another life, I did some canyoneering in Arizona and Utah, particularly Zion. Those canyons--hundreds of feet deep, but 10 feet wide in places--were not the place to cut your teeth. It was your responsibility to assess your (and your mates) level of skill. If you weren't honest with yourself--or your eagerness bled into impatience--you were going to find yourself in a whole world of sh1t pretty quickly.

Now marathonining you have aid tents, thousands of other runners, etc. However, I do think many people enter into these things underprepared and then you wind up with people in aid tents--not just in Chicago or TCM--but in any given weekend.

I stand by my claim that people do not respect the distance--and when people who wind up messed up (though not dead, as often this is due to pre-existing conditions), they chalk it up to the weather or the course when often it rests w/ them.

tmcaboy

16 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

57. Oct 9, 2007 8:38 AM

in response to: newguy56

I don't think runners not being prepared had anything to do with this. How many of us marathoners would run a marathon in that heat without water? They ran out of water!

So many of you younger, faster runners assume anyone who is slower or struggles must not be prepared.

From CNN:

"By the first or second water station, they were out, and they were apologizing, saying, 'Just run a mile or two and there'll be more water,"' said Merrie Ann Nall, a 59-year-old writing coach from DeKalb, Illinois.

bigapplepie

2,636 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

58. Oct 9, 2007 10:00 AM

in response to: newguy56

Just some comments from the ABC website which I think are relevant.

quote:<HR>"When you step onto the field of battle, whether it's football or a marathon, there's an inherent risk of the sport and you accept that as a participant and it's up to each individual to be ready to go," said C.T. Moorman III, the director of sports medicine at Duke University.

Moorman says that in a situation like the Chicago Marathon, runners have to use "common sense."

"It's a really hot day. Make sure electrolyte balance is good. A lot of good sports drinks can do that," Moorman said. "Go slow and hydrate and if you're not in shape don't do it."

Experts agree that if you feel nauseous, lightheaded or if you have stopped sweating during a race, you should seek medical attention.

But there's also another potential element to the marathon-gone-wrong equation: running novices, who may not as easily recognize warning signs that could indicate dehydration or heat exhaustion.

Other critics point out that the Chicago Marathon, at 35,000 runners, is one of the largest in the country that does not require runners to qualify.

The Chicago race is renowned for having a less challenging, flat course, one that attracts eager beginners hoping for a relatively easy run.

"That's exactly what you're going to hear. I think novice runners definitely listen to that kind of advice," said Christopher Ingersoll, editor in chief of the Journal of Athletic Training and a professor of sports medicine at the University of Virginia.

"On one hand, it would be a shame to exclude someone who is not an elite athlete, but is in adequate condition. ? Medical professionals and race organizations need to put their heads together ? to think about inclusions criterion for entrance" to races, Ingersoll said. <HR>

bigapplepie

2,636 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

59. Oct 9, 2007 10:02 AM

in response to: newguy56

quote:<HR>Originally posted by jingchunyu:
We should rememeber that marathon was held in the first place to hornor Pheillipides who died after finishing 24.75 miles. <HR>

If you believe the myth.

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