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Click to view rbbmoose's profile Legend 324 posts since
Oct 12, 2007
15. Oct 10, 2007 6:53 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by NHSenior:
Races started as competitive entities, and serious meant one thing.

I'm a fossil and my fastest time in marathon at 59 was 3:40 so I'm certainly not in the class for which "serious" road races exist.

.]
<HR>


Be careful NHSenior you are starting to sound like me...
I agree 100% obviously - these 45,000+ affairs have gotten as far from competition for most as they can be - and unfortunately Boston is getting to be the same with thousands of (unqualified) charity runners. - Fortunately there are many small or medium sized marathons that us "serious" guys can still compete at...


Ray
Click to view fuzz039's profile Pro 144 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
16. Oct 10, 2007 7:35 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by JulieH478:
There was the short-lived Lakeshore Marathon & 1/2 Marathon. I ran the 1/2 that last year when the marathon course was mistakenly measured at 27.2 miles. The race didn't recover from that.
<HR>
It's a shame, too. A spring marathon on the lakefront bike path ought to be a smash hit if done properly.

To be clear, the Lakeshore Marathon that died of terminal disorganization was a spring marathon in Chicago. The Lakefront Marathon is an October race put on by the Badgerland Striders in Milwaukee, and is by all acounts an exceptionally well-run event.
Click to view dont tase me bro's profile Rookie 3 posts since
Sep 18, 2007
17. Oct 10, 2007 7:54 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by rbbmoose:
these 45,000+ affairs have gotten as far from competition for most as they can be
<HR>


This is true. The only "megamarathon" I've run is Boston, and it's terrible. It's a logistical nightmare for both the organizers and the participants.

For competitive-minded above average recreational runners like me Boston did not allow me to compete with anyone. The crowds were too thick (even at sub-7:00 pace).

I'll take a 300-1000 runner marathon any day over Boston. In small races you actually get to know your competitors during the race, see them often, beat them, get beat by them....it's true competition.
Click to view NHSenior's profile Legend 388 posts since
Nov 23, 2007
18. Oct 10, 2007 8:26 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by rbbmoose:
Be careful NHSenior you are starting to sound like me...
I agree 100% obviously - these 45,000+ affairs have gotten as far from competition for most as they can be
<HR>


You betcha.

I got sucked into the husband, wife, SO thing to go down and run Disney a few years ago. 37F and 25mph wind at 5am and me about 2 days from feeling well enough from the flu to be stupid enough to run it. My ears killed me during landings on the plane flights

My seeding had me in last part of the first corral, where as in Boston the best I ever had was the 9000 group.

It should be no surprise that my condition forced me to walk from 17 on in the general area of 4:15 (I know exactly my good times but only my log knows the exact bad times)

And then I'm literally astounded that my overall place was around 2100 out of 10,000 runners

That's not a marathon. It's just a **** long walk in the park (pun intended) for 80 percent of the participants.

That said, I don't think any of them should be excluded from the opportunity to participate in a marathon

but (if you can suffer a run-on sentence) having the slower runners coping an attitude that the elitists are acting as elitists when the elitists engage in actions and talk about the more elite level of the sport or that the elitist might like an event that was highly geared toward elitist, smacks of reverse
discrimination.

In other words, who the **** are you ("you" being no one in particular) to tell me I have to like living in a dumbed down and watered down society.
Click to view mrinertia's profile Legend 1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
19. Oct 10, 2007 8:38 AM in response to: Harper028
I ran my first marathon about two weeks ago, the Akron Roadrunner. It's close to home and has a rep for being exceptionally well run and it lived up to its expectation and then some. It's a challenging course and not generally conducive to PRs. While I will absolutely run Akron again, I have been browsing marathonguide extensively looking at other options (as in flatter). One of the primary reasons I run is to see how fast I can get, period, so things like scenery and "entertainment" along the route doesn't appeal to me. At first when I started looking I thought it would be fun to run in one of the mega marathons, but the more I read about it, the more I think I'll stick to medium sized events (Bayshore is next!) until I can run Boston, that is (as a qualifier of course).

It surprises me when in a sport that is so much about sweat and guts and grind and push and forging yourself into a harder person that people take offense to the use of the term "serious".
Click to view rbbmoose's profile Legend 324 posts since
Oct 12, 2007
20. Oct 10, 2007 8:53 AM in response to: Harper028
You "elitists" are preaching to the choir here....

I've had pretty good luck running Philly marathon - used to be a real nice size with 2-3000. - Last year I think they felt compelled to be a "big event" so they mixed in a half marathon with simultaneous start...

Oh, and don't tell me that getting old makes it necessary to go "penguin"... Top 4 runners at Philly last year were sub 2:46 for 45-49 AG.


Ray
Click to view sortarunner's profile Pro 98 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
21. Oct 10, 2007 9:00 AM in response to: Harper028
Just curious: Pfitzinger's first book was titled "Road Racing for SERIOUS Runners".I never read that book.I wonder what he meant by "SERIOUS" runners?
Pure speculation on my part is that he meant some one made the activity of RUNNING as one of their priorities and willing to commit enough resources to achieve their goal weather it is having fun,improved fitness ,competetive racing etc.,
Click to view mrinertia's profile Legend 1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
22. Oct 10, 2007 9:29 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by sortarunner:
Just curious: Pfitzinger's first book was titled "Road Racing for SERIOUS Runners".I never read that book.I wonder what he meant by "SERIOUS" runners?
Pure speculation on my part is that he meant some one made the activity of RUNNING as one of their priorities and willing to commit enough resources to achieve their goal weather it is having fun,improved fitness ,competetive racing etc.,
<HR>


As the title implies, it's heavily geared towards becoming a better racer. Fun and social aspects aren't really addressed much, if at all. Fitness is implied throughout, but mostly only as a means to become faster.
Click to view NHSenior's profile Legend 388 posts since
Nov 23, 2007
23. Dec 26, 2007 6:50 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by mrinertia:
I think I'll stick to medium sized events (Bayshore is next!) until I can run Boston, that is (as a qualifier of course).. <HR>


The smaller event are more fun for sure (Boston excepted) . I've done 12 of non Boston marathons and I never was able to qualify for Boston at any of them, but then when I trained for those others I was not training for Boston. Let me explain.

I'd volunteer at Boston for many years but never run it. My training buddies and I would always run half the course back to Boston sometime in Feb and run in mid march from the start line to Cleveland Circle (22 miles) as our last long run. One or a few of 7 guys was always running Boston.

except for miles 2 to 4ish, Boston is wall to wall spectator people shoulder to shoulder all the way. From about mile 16 on people are not only shoulder to shoulder but are now multiple levels deep.

At Wellesley College, Boston College and Boston U. Headphones are not anymore dangerous than not having them. the noise is overwhelming.

One could push a corpse over the start line of Boston and the crowd would move it along on by sheer telekinesis.

I got an opportunity to run Boston by getting a club qualification bypass number which local clubs get for being active in volunteering at Boston and in the running sport in general. Was I psyched.

I trained smart and was PRing at most distances in races leading up to Boston. Whether it was the upcoming Boston or learning to run negative splits (by not going out too fast) I still don't know but I was having a great year.

At the start line I was back in the 18th or 19th corral with the other charity cases smile including a few other people I knew who had club numbers. They kept telling me to calm down. I was actually sort of bouncing on the balls of my feet like a kids on the sideline of a high school game. I then realized that I must have been conveying a "Put me in, Coach, put me in, put me in!" look to people

I was lucky as it was a perfect weather year.

Anyway, I had to back off 3 times from a 30 second too fast a pace during the early part of the course. Boston can be tough on those that don't respect the considerable "down" of the early going. I was shooting for 3:45 that day I'd learned that put to much in the bank early in a race, most often means you are going to withdrawing more than you want to later. Even with knowing that I was under my plan but I just felt invincible.

I hardly knew I was running. I stopped 3/4 of the way up Heartbreak Hill to walk a sort bit with a friend who was having a bad day and then continue continue on.

I don't remember much about anything from that point except for a friend the stuck his arm our from the crowd at Cleveland Circe with 8 oz bottle of water that I nursed to the finish line. After being handed the bottle I remember nothing but turn the final corner on Boylston St to see the finish line and that I was going to be in at 3:40 and change. It was an out of body experience.

It was amazing to be there. I felt so good, that had getting back up the course not been so difficult I might have gone out to run in with some slower friends. Boston had sucked me into its aura and I as such my first BQ was at Boston. That day, that run, that place was absolutely everything it was touted to be. Get there if you can.

http://This message has been edited by NHSenior (edited Oct-10-2007).
Click to view fuzz039's profile Pro 144 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
24. Oct 10, 2007 9:42 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by mrinertia:
I'll stick to medium sized events (Bayshore is next!)<HR>
I also have Bayshore on my "must do" list. The Traverse City area is gorgeous and that race has gotten rave reviews.

A great side effect of the megathons is the trickle-down effect. As the monster races get larger and fill ever more quickly, the small-to-medium-size races proliferate and flourish.
Click to view exciton's profile Legend 317 posts since
Nov 2, 2004
25. Oct 10, 2007 9:57 AM in response to: Harper028
Try out this event. Once you do, you'll be hooked and you'll wonder why you ever bothered paying the entry to stub along with 45,000 cry babies at the ING:

http://www.chicagoultra.org/[/URL" target="_blank">

------------------
My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view mrinertia's profile Legend 1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
26. Oct 10, 2007 9:58 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by fuzz:
[b]
Originally posted by mrinertia:
I'll stick to medium sized events (Bayshore is next!)<HR>
I also have Bayshore on my "must do" list. The Traverse City area is gorgeous and that race has gotten rave reviews.

A great side effect of the megathons is the trickle-down effect. As the monster races get larger and fill ever more quickly, the small-to-medium-size races proliferate and flourish.[/B]


I also think it would be great for the sport to have more races for which you must qualify. I'm not just talking about marathons, it's be great to have some 10ks and halfs, maybe even some 5ks. One thing that's cool about Boston is it gives many a specific target to hit with a corresponding reward. Breaking 3:20 is awesome in and of itself, but doing so and then being allowed to run in hte most prestigious marathon in the world, well, how cool is that. It's be great so see more of that.

I know it's not practical. Verifying qualification can be tough and limiting field size is not good marketing.
Click to view fuzz039's profile Pro 144 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
27. Oct 10, 2007 10:55 AM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by exciton:
Try out this event.

[URL=http://www.chicagoultra.org/[/URL]

<HR>
Oct. 27th... interesting. Maybe they'll attract some people who had to bail out Sunday. Thanks for posting the link.
Click to view Nirvana91's profile Legend 309 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
28. Oct 10, 2007 3:42 PM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by dont tase me bro:
This is true. The only "megamarathon" I've run is Boston, and it's terrible. It's a logistical nightmare for both the organizers and the participants.

For competitive-minded above average recreational runners like me Boston did not allow me to compete with anyone. The crowds were too thick (even at sub-7:00 pace).

I'll take a 300-1000 runner marathon any day over Boston. In small races you actually get to know your competitors during the race, see them often, beat them, get beat by them....it's true competition.

<HR>


Sorry, but I just don't understand that. Let me get this straight: The race (Boston) was too crowded, so you had nobody to compete with? If the race was crowded at your pace, wouldn't that leave you competing with hundreds of racers?

Wouldn't a crowded race inherently be more "competitive?"

I've run in plenty of races where I am literally running alone, and that is much less competitive than the race where there are 100 people within my eyesight over the course of the last mile.

------------------
The Giant Napkin [/URL" target="_blank">

My Blog [/URL" target="_blank">

My running log[/URL" target="_blank">

My Profile[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view Jim Sullivan032's profile Community Moderator 516 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
29. Oct 10, 2007 4:08 PM in response to: Harper028
quote:<HR>Originally posted by Nirvana91:
Sorry, but I just don't understand that. Let me get this straight: The race (Boston) was too crowded, so you had nobody to compete with? If the race was crowded at your pace, wouldn't that leave you competing with hundreds of racers?<HR>
I think I see what he's getting at. It's easier to focus when there's one runner slightly ahead of you, maybe a couple right with you, and a few more close behind you.

Being in a monstrous pack can be so impersonal that you can't identify any one competitor who you can use to push yourself.