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19 Replies Last post: Oct 22, 2007 6:53 PM by figbash   1 2 Previous Next
Click to view michaelsledge's profile Amateur 18 posts since
Aug 15, 2007
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Oct 14, 2007 9:35 PM

now running double-digits. time to GU?

I'm training for my first half marathon in December and reached my longest run to date this morning - 11 miles. I am hydrating with water a couple of times during the run, but I haven't yet tried any gels, beans, etc. At what point should I start using these products and which ones do you recommend? I didn't feel hungry or anything b/c I ate a Nutrigrain bar before the run as I do every morning before my runs.
Click to view dgb2n's profile Pro 139 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
1. Oct 14, 2007 10:05 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
I'm certainly no expert and I hope others chime in.

Once I got over 10 miles, I've started adding either a Cliff Bar, Cliff blocks (half a pack) or Goo pack at about the 8 mile mark. I seemed to notice a difference about 15 minutes after the goo pack today. Might have been the caffeine though.

I try and eat on any training run over about 90 minutes.

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Click to view AKTrail's profile Legend 360 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
2. Oct 14, 2007 11:35 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
I'd recommend the ones that work for you.

Seriously, fluids, electrolytes, and fuel are probably more individual than running shoes. If you're fine on water and nothing else, even with another 2-mi, I wouldn't change anything. It somewhat depends on how long you're going to be out there. A 1.5 hr event may not need anything. A 3-hr event (big hill) might need more. And it may depend on how well fueled you are as well as how well trained you are.

That said, you might find that some extra carbs are helpful. A general guideline might be that the more intense you run the more digestible it should be - liquids being the most easily used, then shot bloks and gels, then solids - in a general sense, anyway. For longer stuff, many people, but not all, need more solid stuff, although some can use gels for hours and hours.

I generally use sports drink only up through 2 hrs, although may carry something more in case I didn't fuel properly before race. I'll use a sports drink rather than water plus gel since that's easier to deal with. (we don't have aid stations most of the time, so carrying our own stuff; if aid stations with water, I might consider water plus shot blok) I'm currently tending to like something like clif shot bloks for intermediate distances although may revisit gels (almost puked on the first ones I tried). Many hours and I like solids like wheat thins, Clif bars, raisinets, whatever. If electrolytes are a consideration, you can get them from a drink or from food or tablet, whatever works for you.
Click to view figbash's profile Legend 617 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
3. Oct 15, 2007 12:23 AM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
Supplemental carbs such as gels or energy bars are totally unnecessary for a half marathon. Your body is capable of storing nearly 2000 calories worth of carbohydrates in the form of glycogen. That's enough for several hours worth of running on carbs alone. Supplemented with fat you're good for a whole lot more. I've run as far as 24 miles while training for a full on nothing but water with no trouble. Typically you won't get near the point of glycogen depletion until you get past 20 miles at race pace.

Tom

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Click to view d3finition's profile Pro 96 posts since
Jan 7, 2006
4. Oct 15, 2007 3:58 AM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
Might be a little off-topic but a question here, how much water do you guys drink during training runs. My longest run is about 8 miles and I usually start drinking at the 7 mile mark. However sometimes I feel I need a drink at the 3 to 4 mile mark.

Should I just drink the water when my body feels like it? Or will drinking water at set intervals be more efficient for overall hydration. Just curious too, how much water do you guys drink on your runs?

d3finition
Click to view mrinertia's profile Legend 1,356 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
5. Oct 15, 2007 4:12 AM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
GU, gels and whatnot aren't necessary until you venture into the 18-20+ mile range. Your muscles will carry enough glycogen to see you through distances shorter than that.

As far as hydration goes, what I take varries greatly with weather, how I'm feeling, etc. When it's hot I'll drink a water bottle's worth on a 6 mile run. Longer than that, I'll stop and refill as needed. Last night was low 50s and I ran 10 miles without drinking.
Click to view AKTrail's profile Legend 360 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
6. Oct 15, 2007 4:44 AM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by d3finition:
Should I just drink the water when my body feels like it? Or will drinking water at set intervals be more efficient for overall hydration. Just curious too, how much water do you guys drink on your runs?
<HR>

Going by feel may be more reliable than a schedule in many cases, although some people may do better with a schedule - IF they have enough experience to know what schedule to use. Wrong schedule and you can dehydrate or become hyponatremic.

How much fluid you need, as well as electrolytes, will depend on your body, weather (temperatures, dewpoint, direct sunlight, etc), and your training. On cool (50F) rainy days, I know I'm quite comfortable (clear pee) with 10oz or less of fluid per hour, but use closer to 20 oz on warm days (60-70F) or cool (30F), bright days on snow. Others (heavy sweaters in hot temps) may use 40 oz in 1 hr. As your body adapts to heat, it may need less fluid and electrolytes.
Click to view monilark's profile Pro 146 posts since
Jan 12, 2005
7. Oct 15, 2007 12:01 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
This is EXACTLY the thread I was going to start. I am due to run a 10 miler this week (I'm training for a half), and I have been soooo apprehensive about the whole fueling/hydrating "thing", LOL.

Yesterday, I ran 9 and did not stop for water, nor did I eat anything, and I felt fine...but, with next week's 10 miler, I was thinking I ought to try to take a Gu.

Does it really make a difference?

I am just unaccustomed to taking any kind of walk break while running, nor am I used to drinking or eating on runs (this is, obviously my first half, LOL, although I have done many 5Ks before).

I hope to finish the half in about 2 hours. Would I be crazy if I didn't even drink anything (this is only if I felt fine, obviously)?
Click to view Long Run Nick's profile Legend 265 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
8. Oct 15, 2007 12:09 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
My couple pennies. 3 decades ago we drank de-fizzed coca- cola on long runs. You are an experiment of one. Try different things in training. You will find out what works for you or doesn't pretty quickly. Water is important before--during and after. Did I mention how important water is --regardless of temperature? Nick
Click to view AKTrail's profile Legend 360 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
9. Oct 15, 2007 12:37 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by monilark:
Yesterday, I ran 9 and did not stop for water, nor did I eat anything, and I felt fine...but, with next week's 10 miler, I was thinking I ought to try to take a Gu.

Does it really make a difference?

I am just unaccustomed to taking any kind of walk break while running, nor am I used to drinking or eating on runs (this is, obviously my first half, LOL, although I have done many 5Ks before).

I hope to finish the half in about 2 hours. Would I be crazy if I didn't even drink anything (this is only if I felt fine, obviously)?
<HR>

To quote Long Run Nick "Try different things in training." Multiple times. This is what your long runs are for. (This is a major complaint I have about some of the canned pgms. They don't deal with many issues that need to be addressed.) Just because someone else "gets by with" or eats whatever (gu's, no water, pizzas) doesn't mean you will - or that you'll be able to every time. Try enough things to have options. What would your needs be at 88F and high humidity? What about 40 deg and med humidity? Will you OD on something before race day? Will it taste good at 1 hr and cruddy at 2 hr? What's available on the course (and you have confidence will really be there)? Don't forget electrolytes.

Especially when you're first starting, it's good to ask around for ideas if water or de-fizzed coke or whatever's on your grocery store shelf may not work for you. Also, learn to recognize the signs of dehyration (pee color among other things, weight loss) and hyponatremia (sloshy stomach among others, weight gain). Hyponatremia shouldn't be an issue for a 2-hr race, unless you hydrate with water for days in advance and guzzle before the race.

Depending on intensity of your run, you may or may not have to slow down or walk to drink / eat. Most of the time I drink on the run, however hr does increase while doing this. While I can eat some foods (wheat thins, clif bars) while jogging along in many-hour run/walk, I've found it works better for me to walk while I eat and drink that stuff. Easier to breather, less likely to choke, digests more easily.

If you take something in individual wrappers, like gel packets, please remember to take a baggie for the trash or be prepared to put gooey wrapper in your pocket. Some gels come in flasks so are easier to use. If you're in a cold climate, think about trying to use the stuff in freezing temperatures with mittens. Some races will DQ you for littering. although that may be more common in trail races, rather than road races.
Click to view jingchunyu's profile Pro 66 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
10. Dec 26, 2007 6:52 AM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
I am not sure about this. it is true that glycogen depletion occurs after 20 miles but it has been getting thinner from
the very start so may be a gel or two still can help
performance. For a car, it does not matter if there are 10 gallon or half gallon of gas left. It does not affect ethe engine
efficiency. But for a human body, full loaded and half loaed
with glycogen make a difference way before complete exhaustion.



http://This message has been edited by jingchunyu (edited Oct-15-2007).
Click to view brazilianfootwork's profile Pro 142 posts since
Jul 6, 2004
11. Oct 15, 2007 3:05 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
Up to 6 miles I don't even like to drink anything during my run (I just make sure to be constantly hydrating during the day). 6-13 miles and I'll carry a bottle of gatorade with me. I've never run more than a half-marathon but up to 13 miles so far I haven't used any gu or food during my run and I feel fine from beginning to end, no bonking yet. I tried gu once and thought it tasted horrible! I once really liked the suggestion of eating gummy-bears along the way or pure honey. I'll probably be creative once I start needing fuel for increased distances, cos not only do I dislike the processed stuff, I don't like to carry anything with me during long runs...I usually try to stash water/gatorade along my route beforehand. This will soon be an issue for me as I increase mileage for marathon training, so it's interesting to see what others have to say.

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Click to view wetfeetl33t's profile Pro 91 posts since
Sep 10, 2006
12. Oct 15, 2007 5:58 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
There's only one way to find out if you should be using gu/gel/gatorade/bananas/etc - experiment. Some people can do long runs with nothing but water, but on the other hand people have been known to bonk after 8 miles; every runner is an experiment of one.

So try a variety of things on your long runs to see what works best. That way, when your half rolls around, you'll already know what works.
Click to view monilark's profile Pro 146 posts since
Jan 12, 2005
13. Oct 18, 2007 6:11 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by wetfeetl33t:
There's only one way to find out if you should be using gu/gel/gatorade/bananas/etc - experiment. Some people can do long runs with nothing but water, but on the other hand people have been known to bonk after 8 miles; every runner is an experiment of one.

So try a variety of things on your long runs to see what works best. That way, when your half rolls around, you'll already know what works.
<HR>


So very true! I'm so afraid of feeling bad or not being able to run after stopping to drink/eat - but that's what training is for, right? Thanks for the words of wisdom!
Click to view figbash's profile Legend 617 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
14. Oct 18, 2007 10:33 PM in response to: michaelsledge
Re: now running double-digits. time to GU?
quote:<HR>Originally posted by wetfeetl33t:
Some people can do long runs with nothing but water, but on the other hand people have been known to bonk after 8 miles; every runner is an experiment of one.

<HR>


If by "bonk", you mean reach glycogen depletion, that can not happen at 8 miles. Any "bonking" at that point would be due to muscle fatigue not glycogen depletion. If someone's conditioning is such that 8 miles is their limit, all of the GU and sports drinks in the world won't help them run another step. Supplemental nutrition is not a substitute for proper training.

Tom


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