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648 Replies Last post: Dec 12, 2007 12:59 PM by Guest Go to original post 1 ... 18 19 20 21 22 ... 44 Previous Next

aharmer

460 posts since
May 25, 2005

285. Nov 6, 2007 5:26 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:

Are you an engineer too?
There's no recipe. I just combine a large apple, a bunch of blueberries (maybe a half cup), two eggs (soft boiled - I cook a dozen at a time and keep them in the frig) a teaspoon of psyllium (not necessary) and about 10 oz. water.

It's not real sweet, but that's how I want it. Sometimes I use other fruit and/or berries as the season goes on. The fat (egg yolks) and added fiber keep the glycemic index low.<HR>

I eat EggBeaters, I assume you could use those with the same result? From what I've heard you don't have to cook Eggbeaters before eating so it may be more convenient as well.

DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

286. Nov 6, 2007 6:11 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by aharmer:
I eat EggBeaters, I assume you could use those with the same result? From what I've heard you don't have to cook Eggbeaters before eating so it may be more convenient as well.<HR>

You're kidding -- eggbeaters? Didn't think people actually ate that stuff. I eat real eggs.

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

287. Nov 6, 2007 8:16 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:

You're kidding -- eggbeaters? Didn't think people actually ate that stuff. I eat real eggs.<HR>

I like eggbeaters myself. They are real eggs, you know! Egg beaters
are good if you want to have, say, 4 eggs, and you don't want
300% of your daily allowance in cholesterol (which is what you get
from 4 eggs). I do like "complete" eggs, too, but I probably get
enough of those from all of the chocolate chip cookie dough I eat.

------------------
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DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

288. Nov 6, 2007 8:36 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by leitnerj:
I like eggbeaters myself. They are real eggs, you know! Egg beaters
are good if you want to have, say, 4 eggs, and you don't want
300% of your daily allowance in cholesterol (which is what you get
from 4 eggs). I do like "complete" eggs, too, but I probably get
enough of those from all of the chocolate chip cookie dough I eat.
<HR>

If they're 'real' eggs, why not buy real, real eggs for half the price?

Do you mean those yellow things

They're happy face yolks you know. Nothing wrong with 300 or 600% of the so-called daily allowance of cholesterol.

Chocolate chip cookies?

Talk about inhibiting ones fat burning. I actually have data (and it's not a pretty site) showing RQ's of athletes who ate cookies (not sure what kind they were) before their treadmill tests!

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

289. Nov 6, 2007 8:41 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:
If they're 'real' eggs, why not buy real, real eggs for half the price?

Do you mean those yellow things They're happy face yolks you know. Nothing wrong with 300 or 600% of the so-called daily allowance of cholesterol.

Chocolate chip cookies?
Talk about inhibiting ones fat burning. I actually have data (and it's not a pretty site) showing RQ's of athletes who ate cookies (not sure what kind they were) before their treadmill tests!

<HR>

As I said, I get plenty of saturated and fat and cholesterol from all
of the other stuff I eat throughout the day. And I said chocolate
chip cookie dough, not chocolate chip cookies. I don't eat it
before my treadmill tests, before my races, or before any exercise
for that matter. In fact, I eat nothing before any runs, races, or
exercise, unless it's 3 or more hours before. Throughout the
rest of the day, however, well, that's a different story.

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

jjwaverly42

337 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

290. Dec 26, 2007 7:02 AM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:
If they're 'real' eggs, why not buy real, real eggs for half the price?

Do you mean those yellow things They're happy face yolks you know. Nothing wrong with 300 or 600% of the so-called daily allowance of cholesterol.

<HR>

Get out of my arteries, man, or I'll filter you with my kidneys,turn you into pee and expel you (check the color and let me know if I'm dehydrated while your in there and all will be forgiven). With every single member of my family having had heart disease (smoking, tense people who ate **** and never exercised on top of genetics), I do my best to ward off that probability.Since I eat lots of eggs, and very little flesh (just chicken or fish once a week) I buy Better n Eggs--all eggwhite, no other ****. Saves me from wasting yolk after yolk. I'll drop dead anyway one of these days, but I like to think I'm in control, (hopefully this won't be a post where everyone goes "that's really spooky, Jimmy died today, and he just mentioned in a post yesterday that he would drop dead"--I waNt to be able to procrastinate for a few more years.)

--JIMMY

@@@@[/URL" target="_blank">
MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">

http://This message has been edited by jjwaverly42 (edited Nov-06-2007).

slowgino

88 posts since
Jan 13, 2007

291. Nov 6, 2007 11:16 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:

For some people, the lack of hunger first thing may be normal too, and if you start running right away and kick in more fat burning it can work well. But some people who are not hungry in the morning may have problems - they don't burn a lot of fat so have to rely on getting fuel from muscle breakdown (not a good thing). These people don't usually eat breakfast, typically rely on caffeine in the morning, and say that if they eat breakfast they're hungry all day. When tested on the treadmill, they never get below a .9 or even higher RQ.

What was your RQ and HR at that fat burning level you mentioned?<HR>

It doesn't seem like I fit into that category of people with those problems. I usually eat breakfast (even though I don't feel hungry) but it's not a huge one - a personal high-protein cereal mix supplemented with some of that cholesterol-lowering plant stanol/sterol stuff and a little low-fat milk. Once in a while a hard-boiled egg. I don't use caffeine. Eating breakfast doesn't make me hungry later (even if I ate a bigger breakfast.)

At that fat burning level I mentioned my HR was 117 and my RQ was 0.76. I feel very comfortable training with an HR between 122 and 127, corresponding to an RQ of .82 to .84 or so. If I take it easier, a .78 RQ at HR119 feels pretty relaxing.

This year's VO2 test was different than last year's though. Last year was at a different place, different equipment, (lower cost) etc. The tester kept the treadmill ramp at the same setting throughout and just upped the speed throughout the test. This time I opted to go for a more expensive test at a place where they had fancier equipment and better software. However, just after that point where I was comfortable and burning a lot of fat the tester started increasing the ramp periodically. My body wasn't really comfortable adjusting to those changes and you can see that in the results. I would have much preferred it if they just increased the speed.

Most of my normal training is relatively flat. Could increasing the "ramp" of the treadmill instead of the speed make a difference in the RQ vs HR profile we get from the test? Otherwise, there are some differences from last year that I have a hard time explaining.

Guest

292. Nov 7, 2007 7:44 AM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

Hello all
Thanks for all the great info
I have decided to start a 12-16 week basebuilding training sesion. I am currently working out only 2-3 times a week but I am commiting myself to train for the "Race to Robie Creek" a half marathon held in Boise Idaho in March of next year. The Question I have is how mych time should I be dedicating to training each day? And as long as I am staying below my Maximum aerobic Heart Rate is there any way I can over do-it? My plan is to work out every day spending 5-10 minutes slowly bringing my heartrat up to my target HR zone whick I am figuring should be about 125-135 BPM. I figure my Max Aerobic HR is 140. I am 35 yrs old. 180 - 35 and subtracting another 5. Once I am in my HR zone I plan to stay ther for another 45-60 minutes each day. Is that enough time? Is it safe to repeat this more than once a day? Also I am planning to rotate my workouts between the treadmill, oliptical trainer, and the bike. My long term goal is to compete in a triathalon.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Steve

DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

293. Nov 7, 2007 12:30 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
Get out of my arteries, man, or I'll filter you with my kidneys,turn you into pee and expel you (check the color and let me know if I'm dehydrated while your in there and all will be forgiven). With every single member of my family having had heart disease (smoking, tense people who ate **** and never exercised on top of genetics), I do my best to ward off that probability.Since I eat lots of eggs, and very little flesh (just chicken or fish once a week) I buy Better n Eggs--all eggwhite, no other ****. Saves me from wasting yolk after yolk. I'll drop dead anyway one of these days, but I like to think I'm in control, (hopefully this won't be a post where everyone goes "that's really spooky, Jimmy died today, and he just mentioned in a post yesterday that he would drop dead"--I waNt to be able to procrastinate for a few more years.)

--JIMMY
<HR>

It?s painful to see intelligent people still thinking this way about cholesterol. Eating eggs is not the deadly sin once erroneously promoted decades ago, but I guess the myth lives on. It?s the high palmitic acid in saturated fat that?s the problem, which is basically all dairy fat. Foods like beef, chocolate (not the cookie dough

), coconut and others have high stearic acid in their saturated fat and actually have health benefits. And, refined carbs are far worse for the deadly forms of cholesterol the body makes than egg yolks.

This is way off the topic but I could let it go by.

DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

294. Nov 7, 2007 12:36 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by slowgino:
...At that fat burning level I mentioned my HR was 117 and my RQ was 0.76. I feel very comfortable training with an HR between 122 and 127, corresponding to an RQ of .82 to .84 or so. If I take it easier, a .78 RQ at HR119 feels pretty relaxing.

This year's VO2 test was different than last year's though. Last year was at a different place, different equipment, (lower cost) etc. The tester kept the treadmill ramp at the same setting throughout and just upped the speed throughout the test. This time I opted to go for a more expensive test at a place where they had fancier equipment and better software. However, just after that point where I was comfortable and burning a lot of fat the tester started increasing the ramp periodically. My body wasn't really comfortable adjusting to those changes and you can see that in the results. I would have much preferred it if they just increased the speed.

Most of my normal training is relatively flat. Could increasing the "ramp" of the treadmill instead of the speed make a difference in the RQ vs HR profile we get from the test? Otherwise, there are some differences from last year that I have a hard time explaining.<HR>

You might consider ignoring the first test. It's important when retesting to use the same protocol, and same equipment. Do you see a deflection point -- a point on the graph (if one was included in your report) where the RQ suddenly rises at a quicker rate? You can sometimes tell just by looking at the numbers.

Also, how old are you?

Dana Becker

392 posts since
Nov 20, 2007

295. Nov 7, 2007 1:57 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by DavidD:

A good example of a real high glycemic meal.<HR>

Yeah, pretty much. But I've had no problems with it. I have been thinking about cutting the banana out and replacing it with something else...or changing meals altogether.

Then again, I haven't had any issues thus far, and can't really justify changing anything. Some people are affected more than others in how their body responds to those high glycemic meals if I recall from reading Maffetone's nutrition chapter.

DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

296. Nov 7, 2007 4:44 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Docster:
Some people are affected more than others in how their body responds to those high glycemic meals if I recall from reading Maffetone's nutrition chapter.

<HR>

Some people are affected by symptoms of high glycemic meals. But everyone responds poorly to high glycemic food because it's unnatural, even if they don't have symptoms.

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

297. Nov 7, 2007 6:09 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

I generally try to avoid any discussion of nutrition, other than
to say avoid carbs before running, because I don't set a good
example. However, I do keep myself as an open book. I definitely
don't fall into the category that you describe, David. I eat a ton of
stuff, good and bad, whatever I want, and more than I want, because
if I don't, I get too skinny and I don't like to be skinny. My personal
preference. I use this philosophy: if I really like it, I will eat it. If
there is an option that is in some sense considered a healthier
option and, in my taste, it is equivalent, I will take that option.
If I'm eating a tub of chocolate chip cookie dough and one option
is trans fat free and the other has trans fat, I'll take the trans fat
free version. I love chocolate. I will go through an immeasurable
amount in a week. Dark chocolate is supposed to be healthier.
But I don't like it, so I don't eat it. The lighter and the creamier,
the better. It wouldn't be an odd day for me to finish a pound of it.
If I'm going to be eating eggs of a scrambled variety, I notice
no difference whatsoever in eggbeaters or whole eggs. If I want
eggs benedict, well, of course, it has to be whole eggs. Then it
makes a difference. I get plenty of fats through my normal daily
eating. There's never a concern that I'm not getting enough.
It's not unusual for me to go through a gallon of chocolate milk
in a day. I like the lower fat versions better because I just don't
like it with that thick feeling that the higher fat versions provide.
With 2% milk fat, a gallon of chocolate milk will have about
something around, say, 100 grams of fat and probably 40 grams
of saturated fat. Half that with 1% milk fat. Tastes better to me
and I find it hard to believe that I would be better off with that much
extra fat and saturated fat. Now, if I was concerned about keeping
my weight down, I would probably think more extensively about
the entire balance, but I work to maintain my current weight as
best I can. (This is the opposite of where I was 4 years ago when
I weighed 50 lbs more and ate next to nothing.)

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

298. Nov 7, 2007 6:16 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

quote:<HR>Originally posted by prodigious:
Hello all
Thanks for all the great info
I have decided to start a 12-16 week basebuilding training sesion. I am currently working out only 2-3 times a week but I am commiting myself to train for the "Race to Robie Creek" a half marathon held in Boise Idaho in March of next year. The Question I have is how mych time should I be dedicating to training each day? And as long as I am staying below my Maximum aerobic Heart Rate is there any way I can over do-it? My plan is to work out every day spending 5-10 minutes slowly bringing my heartrat up to my target HR zone whick I am figuring should be about 125-135 BPM. I figure my Max Aerobic HR is 140. I am 35 yrs old. 180 - 35 and subtracting another 5. Once I am in my HR zone I plan to stay ther for another 45-60 minutes each day. Is that enough time? Is it safe to repeat this more than once a day? Also I am planning to rotate my workouts between the treadmill, oliptical trainer, and the bike. My long term goal is to compete in a triathalon.
Does that sound like a reasonable plan?
Any tips or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Steve<HR>

Hi Steve-
Most of your questions are entirely personal in nature and there's
no single or even best answer for them. What you are proposing
sounds like a generally safe approach for build up. However, even
if you are staying below MAF, there is still a risk of overuse if you
build up volume too quickly. However, it is much less likely. If
you pay close attention to the signs your body gives you and
you track your resting heart rate, you should be able to build
up your volume in a very safe way. If you stay below MAF, that
should be enough time for you to be fully and safely prepared
for your half marathon. Your mix of different exercises should
be very helpful.

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

Nosy

14 posts since
Jul 26, 2007

299. Nov 7, 2007 6:36 PM

in response to: formationflier

Re: Basebuilding, low heart rate training, via Maffetone, Mark Allen, Hadd, Mittleman

I had an interesting discovery on this morning's run while trying a breathing exercise called "steps" (normally taught to children during a buteyko course). This is basically a breath hold counting steps until a "strong urge" to breathe is felt, then normal breathing is resumed. Instead of holding my breath I just prolong my exhale until I feel the strong urge, at this point I feel slightly uncomfortable and my stomach muscles start to stiffen.

Normally I run at a HR of 130, I inhale for 1 second and exhale for 4 seconds. It took 10 seconds to feel the strong urge. At this point I noticed that my HR would drop by 10-15 bpm for several seconds and then recover. This effect happened each time I tried it. An exhale that was not long enough to produce the "strong urge" had no effect on HR. By the end of my hour run it took slightly longer to produce the effect, around 13 seconds.

Obviously CO2 levels in the blood rise when breath is held, but it surprised me that this might cause such a pronounced (if temporary) effect on HR, if anything I would have expected HR to rise from the stress of doing a slightly uncomfortable exercise.

Simon

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