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bdags061

61 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

570. Dec 26, 2007 7:02 AM

in response to: formationflier

I'm hoping to get some feedback on the best way to build my milage. All of my runs are being run under MAF. I plan on spending the next several months building milage. My primary goal, of course, is avoiding injury. I've been running 5 days/week and plan to stick with that. My milage over the last several weeks has been as follows: 11,12, 15, 20, 20, 22, 25. This week I cut back to 15. I've been running for just over a year, and 25 miles is the most I've ever run in a week. Last week, my runs were as follows:

Mon - Off
Tues - 5
Wed - 4
Thurs - 5.5
Fri - Off
Sat - 3.5
Sun - 7

Total 25 miles

Since I've cut back to 15 this week, do I add milage next week, or should I stick with 25? Also, what is the best way to build on this schedule? Should I add on to the long run first for a few weeks, or add small distances to several runs? My short term goal is 40 mpw within the next 3-4 months. In addition, I will be doing lesser amounts of stationary biking and swimming. Any help is appreciated.

http://This message has been edited by bdags (edited Nov-30-2007).

Guest

571. Dec 26, 2007 7:02 AM

in response to: formationflier

Hi, my name is Russ and I'm a Maffaholic. It's been 5 weeks since my last high HR.

I've been running again for 1.5 years after a minor 20 year rest period. 40 years old, 6'1", 235 down to 210 during that time.

Ran Detroit Marathon, which for me was the best 18 mile and worst 8.2 mile race of my life. 4:59:47 after running a 2:05 half marathon in the spring. Was undertrained for sure, but aerobic engine was sputtering due to too many fast training runs.

Now training solely below 140 and feeling great. Building back up to 30-40 miles a week until June when I will begin another fall training for marathon.

Plan to run a few races this spring (1 5K, 1 10K, 1 15K, 1 1/2 marathon) to gauge fitness - all other runs will be below 140.

I started running again to lose weight and get in shape, but unfortunately my Type A personality got in the way. I'm back now to training the right way. I feel great with no blown tires, creaks, or groans in 5 weeks - legs feel fresher than ever. I'm seeing concrete improvement already.

I must admit that it takes a strong will to stick with this, but I look at it as mental training for the end of my next marathon.

Good luck to all you newbies like me, and thanks for all the wisdom of those who have Maffed before us.

Must say that losing the next 20 lbs is much harder than keeping HR below 140. You just need to see name of blog for reason why ::: Balancing BBQ and BQ[/URL" target="_blank">

Yours in low and slow (HR and pace OR conversely pulled pork),

Russ

------------------
____

http://bbqandbq.blogspot.com[/URL" target="_blank">

http://This message has been edited by russ1910 (edited Nov-30-2007).

http://This message has been edited by russ1910 (edited Nov-30-2007).

DavidD063

361 posts since
Jan 25, 2007

572. Nov 30, 2007 8:23 PM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by roster:
Can anyone advise about how long the injury allowance in calculating one's Maf score lasts? I had a gym injury a year ago (knee tendinitis in both knees caused by being given much too heavy a weight to lift by a trainer, with poor technique), which is much better but still giving me pain at times. My Maf score is 180 - age (57) = 123, less 10 for being on regular meds (not much I can do about that), less 5 for injury, + 5 for being over 55 = 113. (Thanks to Jimmy for helping me work that out a few weeks ago.) I'm enjoying the walking/running, and mixing in some limited anaerobic work, as Maffetone recommends (some press ups etc, just twice a week for 30 mins at a time, with 15 mins aerobic warm up and cool down either side at 90% of my Maf, i.e. at 102).
How long before I can remove the discount for the injury, and make my Maf score 118? Should it be when the injury isn't bothering me at all, or some period (?6 months, ?1 year) after that?

Any comments very welcome.

<HR>

You only choose ONE number (out of the four options) when using the 180 formula. So you'd be 180 - age - 10.

jjwaverly42

337 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

573. Dec 26, 2007 7:02 AM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by bdags:
I'm hoping to get some feedback on the best way to build my milage. All of my runs are being run under MAF. I plan on spending the next several months building milage. My primary goal, of course, is avoiding injury. I've been running 5 days/week and plan to stick with that. My milage over the last several weeks has been as follows: 11,12, 15, 20, 20, 22, 25. This week I cut back to 15. I've been running for just over a year, and 25 miles is the most I've ever run in a week. Last week, my runs were as follows:

Mon - Off
Tues - 5
Wed - 4
Thurs - 5.5
Fri - Off
Sat - 3.5
Sun - 7

Total 25 miles

Since I've cut back to 15 this week, do I add milage next week, or should I stick with 25? Also, what is the best way to build on this schedule? Should I add on to the long run first for a few weeks, or add small distances to several runs? My short term goal is 40 mpw within the next 3-4 months. In addition, I will be doing lesser amounts of stationary biking and swimming. Any help is appreciated.

http://This message has been edited by bdags (edited Nov-30-2007).<HR>

The best way to build mileage is slowly. If you click here[/URL" target="_blank"> you'll download a mileage buildup chart that shows one way to build. It includes hard/easy, cut back weeks. You can start anywhere and level off anywhere. Always use your body's state of health as when to add extra rest, or as when to stop building. Modify the schedule anyway you like to suit yourself.

Notice that miles are first added to hard days, keeping easy days easy.

Keep going!

---Jimmy

@@@@[/URL" target="_blank">
MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">

jjwaverly42

337 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

574. Nov 30, 2007 9:18 PM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by roster:
Can anyone advise about how long the injury allowance in calculating one's Maf score lasts? I had a gym injury a year ago (knee tendinitis in both knees caused by being given much too heavy a weight to lift by a trainer, with poor technique), which is much better but still giving me pain at times. My Maf score is 180 - age (57) = 123, less 10 for being on regular meds (not much I can do about that), less 5 for injury, + 5 for being over 55 = 113. (Thanks to Jimmy for helping me work that out a few weeks ago.) I'm enjoying the walking/running, and mixing in some limited anaerobic work, as Maffetone recommends (some press ups etc, just twice a week for 30 mins at a time, with 15 mins aerobic warm up and cool down either side at 90% of my Maf, i.e. at 102).
How long before I can remove the discount for the injury, and make my Maf score 118? Should it be when the injury isn't bothering me at all, or some period (?6 months, ?1 year) after that?

Any comments very welcome.

<HR>

You have to be the judge. The whole reason for that subtraction for injury is to reduce stress on the body so you can heal and not reinjure. It's been over a year since I injured my plantar tendon, it's been fully healed for about 6-7 months, I just recently stopped taking the subtraction on hard days, and still keep it on easy days. I felt I was ready to go back to 180-age (134) on the longer runs. I only go over MAF-5 (129) in the last few miles and on MAF tests. So about 95% of total miles are still about MAF-5 and below. So far so good.

Take it slow, allow your injury to fully heal.
Just keep making an honest assessment and do the right thing for your health.

--Jimmy

@@@@[/URL" target="_blank">
MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">

lowgear1

65 posts since
Oct 28, 2006

575. Nov 30, 2007 9:51 PM

in response to: formationflier

Hey Jimmy,

When you have time please check your yearly MAF mileage totals for 11/18 thru 11/25

Unless you have earmarked those 10 miles for a rainy day, could I borrow them?

I could sure use them as we have a freezing ice storm coming in overnight and my long run may be set back.

LG1
Rollin' ...thru imperfyct storm

bdags061

61 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

576. Nov 30, 2007 10:16 PM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
The best way to build mileage is slowly. If you click here[/URL" target="_blank"> you'll download a mileage buildup chart that shows one way to build. It includes hard/easy, cut back weeks. You can start anywhere and level off anywhere. Always use your body's state of health as when to add extra rest, or as when to stop building. Modify the schedule anyway you like to suit yourself.

Notice that miles are first added to hard days, keeping easy days easy.

Keep going!

---Jimmy

@@@@[/URL" target="_blank">
MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">

<HR>

Thanks Jimmy!

That chart looks good. I may have to modify it a bit to keep to 5 days/wk for now, but I like the idea of keeping easy days easy and building milage into the hard days. This would put me on track for 40 mpw within 4 months.

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

577. Dec 1, 2007 9:31 AM

in response to: formationflier

Since I just got back from flat Houston, I thought I would
post a comparison so that you can see the tremendous
difference elevation variation makes on average heart
rate and pace, given two runs fairly close together and
in basically the same condition. I'm still in recovery mode
now from a long race year, so I'm keeping everything low.

So here's a 7 mile run I did in Houston, dead flat, 54 degrees.
Average pace: 9:18/mile, average heart rate: 128, cumulative
elevation gain: 91 feet. (my
MAF is 147 by Maffetone's equation, but in reality it's over
150): Houston 7 mile run [/URL" target="_blank">

Here's a 12 mile run I did in my area, hilly, 33 degrees.
Average pace: 9:41/mile, average heart rate: 132, cumulative
elevation gain: 1080 ft: Columbia 12 mile run[/URL" target="_blank">

So 4 beats higher heart rate and 23 sec/mile slower average, due
only to the existence of hills.

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

lowgear1

65 posts since
Oct 28, 2006

578. Dec 1, 2007 11:55 AM

in response to: formationflier

Thanks to finding an awesome trail, my training has taken on a newfound sense of freedom. I'd been confined to repetitive dreadmill work. Frankly,it had become laborious.

Now, I'm no longer shackled to that environment. Where in the past it took some prodding to get me into motion, I'm now a self-starter.

We all need refreshing from time to time, so I would suggest experimenting with different venues, etc.-- expanding your horizons.

LG1
Rollin'...free at last

jjwaverly42

337 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

579. Dec 1, 2007 2:20 PM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by leitnerj:
Since I just got back from flat Houston, I thought I would
post a comparison so that you can see the tremendous
difference elevation variation makes on average heart
rate and pace, given two runs fairly close together and
in basically the same condition. I'm still in recovery mode
now from a long race year, so I'm keeping everything low.

So here's a 7 mile run I did in Houston, dead flat, 54 degrees.
Average pace: 9:18/mile, average heart rate: 128, cumulative
elevation gain: 91 feet. (my
MAF is 147 by Maffetone's equation, but in reality it's over
150): Houston 7 mile run [/URL" target="_blank">

Here's a 12 mile run I did in my area, hilly, 33 degrees.
Average pace: 9:41/mile, average heart rate: 132, cumulative
elevation gain: 1080 ft: Columbia 12 mile run[/URL" target="_blank">

So 4 beats higher heart rate and 23 sec/mile slower average, due
only to the existence of hills.

<HR>

Good post, Jesse. Shows how MAF training keeps you from working too hard up the hills. For some it could border on speedwork during long runs if you didn't keep the HR down. Welcome back to the hilly east.

--Jimmy

MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">
profile[/URL" target="_blank">

jjwaverly42

337 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

580. Dec 1, 2007 2:48 PM

in response to: formationflier

To piggyback Jesse's educational post for newbies, here's my first 19-mile run since the 2006 Philly marathon. The wind was from **** today, and it was cold in ****. Blowing consistently between 15-30 mph, with gusts of 40 mph that were stopping me in my tracks. I did the run on the Blackstone RIver bike path. Half the run is down river and the other half up river. The wind was blowing in the direction of the flow of the river. As you would guess, down river and wind was a bit easier, and warmer. I marked the miles below as to which were up wind and river or down wind or river. You can see running back into the wind I would slow by 20-30 seconds. Normally running upriver is a little slower but not like today.
I could have kept pace, but that would have put me off my HR plan for the run

HR Plan:

Mile 1-6 max average at 118
mile 7-12 max average at 126
mile 13-19 max average at 134 (MAF)

The good news is that I beat my 18 miler that I ran two weeks ago by 17 seconds per mile. I also felt I held the same tempo or feel for the entire run.

stats with notes:
temp 24º
19 miles
average pace 11:38
WEAR: toque, long sleeve shirt, nylon vest, windbreaker, tights, gloves
Nike Frees 7.0 shoes, and Babe Didrikson Training Panties for Men.

no breakfast, ran on empty stomach, drank 42 oz of water total
****** 26 times down wind, and couldn't hear them upwind

13:03 99 ( 1st 5 miles down wind, down river)
11:12 111
11:12 114
11:23 116
11:22 118
11:39 119 ( next 6 into the wind, up river)
11:47 120
11:40 122
11:49 124
11:52 126 (hill)
11:51 126 (slow incline)
11:19 126 (back downwind and down river)
11:24 129
11:26 129
11:23 129
11:59 133 (last 4 miles up wind and up river)(brutal wind this mile)
11:49 134
11:57 134 (hill)
12:05 134 (slow incline, doubly more mind-numbing brutal gusts)

That's the scoop. I'm feeling pretty psyched to have my volume back up over 60 mpw and that my long runs are approaching the magic 20 mile level; most of all that I am feeling healthy, everything is a-okay so far (thank you Running gods and goddesses, you truly are powerful and kind).

On a side note, I signed up for the Vermont City Marathon (May 25th). I really didn't feel like doing Boston this year. My spirit wasn't there this year.

Have great weekend and enjoy my rest day tomorrow.

--JImmy

MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">
profile[/URL" target="_blank">

lowgear1

65 posts since
Oct 28, 2006

581. Dec 26, 2007 7:02 AM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by jjwaverly42:
To piggyback Jesse's educational post for newbies, here's my first 19-mile run since the 2006 Philly marathon. The wind was from **** today, and it was cold in ****. Blowing consistently between 15-30 mph, with gusts of 40 mph that were stopping me in my tracks. I did the run on the Blackstone RIver bike path. Half the run is down river and the other half up river. The wind was blowing in the direction of the flow of the river. As you would guess, down river and wind was a bit easier, and warmer. I marked the miles below as to which were up wind and river or down wind or river. You can see running back into the wind I would slow by 20-30 seconds. Normally running upriver is a little slower but not like today.
I could have kept pace, but that would have put me off my HR plan for the run

HR Plan:

Mile 1-6 max average at 118
mile 7-12 max average at 126
mile 13-19 max average at 134 (MAF)

The good news is that I beat my 18 miler that I ran two weeks ago by 17 seconds per mile. I also felt I held the same tempo or feel for the entire run.

stats with notes:
temp 24º
19 miles
average pace 11:38
WEAR: toque, long sleeve shirt, nylon vest, windbreaker, tights, gloves
Nike Frees 7.0 shoes, and Babe Didrikson Training Panties for Men.

no breakfast, ran on empty stomach, drank 42 oz of water total
****** 26 times down wind, and couldn't hear them upwind

13:03 99 ( 1st 5 miles down wind, down river)
11:12 111
11:12 114
11:23 116
11:22 118
11:39 119 ( next 6 into the wind, up river)
11:47 120
11:40 122
11:49 124
11:52 126 (hill)
11:51 126 (slow incline)
11:19 126 (back downwind and down river)
11:24 129
11:26 129
11:23 129
11:59 133 (last 4 miles up wind and up river)(brutal wind this mile)
11:49 134
11:57 134 (hill)
12:05 134 (slow incline, doubly more mind-numbing brutal gusts)

That's the scoop. I'm feeling pretty psyched to have my volume back up over 60 mpw and that my long runs are approaching the magic 20 mile level; most of all that I am feeling healthy, everything is a-okay so far (thank you Running gods and goddesses, you truly are powerful and kind).

On a side note, I signed up for the Vermont City Marathon (May 25th). I really didn't feel like doing Boston this year. My spirit wasn't there this year.

Have great weekend and enjoy my rest day tomorrow.

--JImmy

MAF log[/URL" target="_blank">
profile[/URL" target="_blank"><HR>

Jimmy,

Another superb run.

I was about to make a retraction of that mileage observation. Up until today it appeared that you had identical 39 mile weekly totals and I was unsure of your accounting methodology. I'm generally not that anal.
Thanks for the footnote.

I can see now that running with your tutelage makes this Maff journey a real gas.

I'm fascinated by your wardrobe. Those Didriksons sound handy. I've gone with the generic Depends. I find as I've gotten older they work well. Now when I drop the deuce, I just continue @ maf pace saving precious time and those babies will hold a 2 poundah easily.

I can thus save exertion for the finish line.

LG1
Rollin'...Most appreciative student...Weighing anchor.

http://This message has been edited by lowgear1 (edited Dec-01-2007).

Guest

582. Dec 2, 2007 7:44 AM

in response to: formationflier

I did it! Read all 24 pages of this thread! That's an accomplishment in and of itself.

This sounds perfect for me. I'm a newbie and want to run after 4 years of recuperating from an accident. I was always in the gym and loved to x-country ski prior to a bad fall. To be able to run (and race) would be such a great "come back." My HR would be 138 (180-37-5) (right?). Got my real running shoes from a local shop and am ready to hop on the treadmill.

Thanks, eveyone, for this resource.

formationflier

989 posts since
Oct 13, 2007

583. Dec 2, 2007 9:29 AM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Go Bones Go:
I did it! Read all 24 pages of this thread! That's an accomplishment in and of itself.

This sounds perfect for me. I'm a newbie and want to run after 4 years of recuperating from an accident. I was always in the gym and loved to x-country ski prior to a bad fall. To be able to run (and race) would be such a great "come back." My HR would be 138 (180-37-5) (right?). Got my real running shoes from a local shop and am ready to hop on the treadmill.

Thanks, eveyone, for this resource. <HR>

You're not done yet - you first need to read all 377.4 pages of the
previous few threads, then all the links in the FAQ, then all of the
FAQ, then you're ready.

Just kidding of course. Good luck - now is the time for an extreme
exercise in immense patience. You'll be posting back in a week or
two saying, "something is wrong - I can't possibly have to go this
slowly!"

------------------
MyRunningLog[/URL" target="_blank">
MyStuff[/URL" target="_blank">
Low Heart Rate Training FAQ[/URL" target="_blank">
My marathons and ultras[/URL" target="_blank">
My races and reports[/URL" target="_blank">

lowgear1

65 posts since
Oct 28, 2006

584. Dec 2, 2007 9:50 AM

in response to: formationflier

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Go Bones Go:
I did it! Read all 24 pages of this thread! That's an accomplishment in and of itself.

This sounds perfect for me. I'm a newbie and want to run after 4 years of recuperating from an accident. I was always in the gym and loved to x-country ski prior to a bad fall. To be able to run (and race) would be such a great "come back." My HR would be 138 (180-37-5) (right?). Got my real running shoes from a local shop and am ready to hop on the treadmill.

Thanks, eveyone, for this resource. <HR>

Welcome, Go Bones Go

Hopefully you kept your HR within proper limits while perusing these 24 pages. It gets pretty 'racy' as you've no doubt discovered.

But seriously,you should find this to be a great resource. The posters are very knowledgeable and give generously of their time to advance the principles outlined in the FAQS, etc.

I hasten to offer this, even as the "season" is upon us and there's alot of belt tightening going on, the price of precious metals such as copper is soaring, yet, yet I hereby am offering.......

"My two cents worth".....(virtual that is)

LG1
Rollin'....coins...and you can take that to the bank

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