If running in races with people wearing iPods is too dangerous for you, I suggest you take up knitting instead. Or at least confine your running to treadmills or open fields away from the dangers of street running. Its people like you (the vocal minority) who cause the USATF to ban iPods in sanctioned events. Stop trying to ruin everyone else's fun!

Maybe if you are having so much trouble with iPod wearers, then the problem is with you, not them. I mean seriously, who ever has heard of all having all these problems while racing?

Don't worry though, I'm sure if you and people like you keep crying about it long and loud enough, you'll manage to get your way and ruin it for the rest of us, who love to get outside and listen to great music while we run.

I've run in over 20 races the past two years and not once have I seen somone run in the wrong direction at an intersection. Nor have I seen anyone get someone else tangled in their wires. This whole notion of this happening is preposterous. As far as the ambulance goes... I definitely call BS on this one. Do you have any idea how loud an ambulance/fire engine siren is? There's no way that someone's iPod was turned up so loud that they couldn't hear an ambulance right behind them. I live about a half mile from a Hospital so I see/hear ambulances all the time when I run. I run with my iPod turned up full blast and I can still hear these sires from hundreds of yards away. If someone had to be "dragged" off the course to let a rushing ambulance by, then they were either totally deaf or heard it and just didn't care.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by qtownrunner:
I've run in over 20 races the past two years and not once have I seen somone run in the wrong direction at an intersection. .<HR>

Yet again we hear from another rocket scientist, who uses "not seeing" things as proof that something don't exist.

People are constantly taking wrong turns in races. Even in reasonable well controlled races because when volunteers don't show up as planned course-turn monitors are the most expendable folks available to cover other tasks. The logic being most people will be running where they can see a runner in front of them.

This is not the runners fault, but you are so wrong about how often it happens. The reason I know it happens is that it something that will be reported to the RD or others on the race committee, either by the runner, the police or some other runner.

One of the things many of you don't know about running up here in the northest is the huge number races that takes place on any given weekend from March to the end of November. Most of the RDs and volunteers help out at lots of races and/or run many themselves and the hanging around and discussion lots of this stuff is a major part of what is in the lives of a many hundreds of journeymen runners up here.

It is not unusual for MaryT to be at or running a race every weekend somewhere in New England where there can be between 50 to 100 races over the 2 days. It is not unusual for Mary or myself and tons of others to be at an event both days of a weekend. I live in another state from MaryT but you don't run much up here and not be acquainted with her. She is part of the running landscape and in a very good way.

I run 25 to 30 races a year and help at least at that many more. Once you get tuned into this stuff which is peripheral to running you see it all the time. It is not solid research but it so far beyond annicdotal.

Most of you folk just don't know what your are talking about. You have so little opportunity to observe and I doubt you spend any time trying to observe. Having no dog in the fight, it goes against human nature to observe all this stuff in a conscious fashion. And since most of what you guys seem to present is "not seening" I just shake my head. Doesn't "not seeing" strike you as just a bit odd in the proof department.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by rbbmoose:
Yes - I can see that. Personally I don't really care about IPODS , but get a little tired of the endless sanctimonious pontification. - But since this is such a big part of your life, carry on. I'll just run.


Ray<HR>

You should be glad Ray, that there are those of us like myself and NHSenior who do care and who do volunteer so people like you can "just run" in races. Some of us are getting fed up with what we have to deal with and are seriously starting to think helping out to provide races for people to run is no longer worth the hassles.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by JB:
[b]On the front page of the Palm Beach Post yesterday was a picture of Sonja Friend-Uhl crossing the finish line as the winner of the Marathon of the Palm Beaches. She had an ipod shuffle clipped to her shorts and her headphones wrapped around her neck. So I guess it's not just the back of the packers.

I ran the half, with an ipod, and beat my goal time by 3 minutes. What I've noticed, is that with all this ipod hoopla going on, the ipod wearers for the most part are super sensitive to what's around them because they don't want to be the one to prove the naysayers right. I know that's how I am out there.

The only incident I had in the whole race, was an overzealous runner about knocked me over to get to the water (as I was waiting my turn) and spilled his cup all over me. He didn't have an ipod...which brings me to this conclusion...and it's a hard one for anyone to disagree with:

a$$holes are a$$holes, ipod or not.[/b]<HR>

Yup.



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Double cross the vacant and the bored
They're not sure just what we have in store

Streetlife
You can scoff, you can believe what you want, and you can call me a liar if you choose, but I do NOT tell exaggerated stories. Maybe you don't get as absorbed in your music, and maybe you do but just realize it; I don't know. I do know what headphone wearers can ignore when they get zoned out listening to music, although it may seem unbelievable to you and it did to me when I saw that runner just keeping on going straight down the street while everyone else was moving out of the way of the ambulance, but believe me, it happens. We even had one runner just sail on past the finish line on the other side of the street just off in her own isolated world. Just totally oblivious.

Thunderthighs, I've never had a problem with any runners who didn't wear headphones other than perhaps a very minor jostling in very crowded races, and if anything minor does happen they immediately back off and say sorry. Absolutely nothing like the problems I have seen with people wearing headphones. There is just no comparison with the behavior of the obliviousness of some (not all to be sure) who run with headphones..



http://This message has been edited by maryt (edited Dec-07-2007).

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Streetlife:
You know, some of us actually do drink responsibly you know...<HR>

Here! Here!!

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Double cross the vacant and the bored
They're not sure just what we have in store

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Streetlife:
I suppose it's possible there is truth to your stories. But then if what you are saying is true, isn't the real issue the stupid people, rather then the stupid gadget?

I would bet those same people that did all those unbelievable things would have done the exact same thing had they not had music. It's quite possible they are just oblivious as people in general.

Do me a favour honestly. Walk through the down town core of any city you are in, and watch how many times you get bumped into, stepped on, or stopped short on. Then, see how many of them are listening to music or talking on the phone.

I think you will see that very few are. In actual fact, a lot of people are just oblivious to their surroundings no matter where they are. It doesn't matter if they are just riding the subway, or running a marathon, they are still going to be in your way.

Don't blame ipods instead of the random idiotic people. Just like you can't blame all beer drinkers for the drunk driving accidents around the world. You know, some of us actually do drink responsibly you know...<HR>

Streetlife
I honestly have done as you say, not on a downtown street but in crowded mall, and most people, even moms with children, are aware of their surroundings and move to the left or right if there is a crowded area so as not to make contact.(and move their kids - the toddlers themselves are not so aware ) The people who are the most oblivious and would walk into you if you didn't make an effort to get out the way, are the teenaged cell-phone users and I doubt they are even aware someone had to move out of their way to avoid a collision.. Pretty much the same behavior as I have seen with headphone wearers in races or with drivers using cell phones.

I don't believe the issue is stupid people, I believe the issue is distracted people, and I believe (or maybe just want to believe) that headphone wearers in races, like some cell phone users, have no idea just how distracted they are or are even aware of how many problems or near misses they cause. I would bet you find that most are like the OP and didn't realize how distracting headphones can be until they took them off and raced without them. Remember this post that started the thread?

quote:<HR>Originally posted by mrourke:
I have run most of my marathons with an I Pod, and thought I was an aware courteous runner. It is every other I pod person that sucks, not me.

Today I pr'd at the California International Marathon with out an I Pod. (nothing to do with the i pod), however, .......It was crowded first 6 miles and those that were listening to music were clueless to those around them.

Clogging lanes, changing pace, meandering, confusing the water stations, and yelling to their friends.

I will jump on the bandwagon to ban them in any run longer than a HM.<HR>

I and others have found that headphone use is as much if not more of a problem in shorter races, but generally, his expeience is what I have seen as well.

Beer drinking is a good analogy. You can be a responsible beer drinker, in fact drink as much as you want so long as it doesn't affect anyone else. But if you had even a couple, would you be as aware and capable a driver as you would be if you hadn't had any? Of course not. It's the beer itself that would make you a less capable driver - same as it's the headphones that makes some racers not as capable of being aware of their surroundings and reacting as quickly to turns coming up, changes in the flow of the race, etc. It is the "stupid gadget" that can turn people who would likely ordinarily be courteous people, into distracted racers that can disrupt the race for others and not even be aware they are doing so..