quote:<HR>Originally posted by dg12:
You're the expert, hail to the king.

In the last phase of the gait, my leg straightens out completely and the foot raises up a little. The distance traveled of my leg is longer than those who flick their feet higher. I sometimes run on the mill and I'm able to compare our running gaits and also from the sides. <HR>

How can I ignore this when I was specifically requested (and was called "king (of the Hill)")? Besides, it seems the only way to maitain this thread was to post something myself...

We can go on and on talking about so-called ?correct gait?; but very few coaches, let alone some theorists (?or worse yet, people like Richard99), can suggest how to go about ?correcting? it. First of all, as a coach, if I see some ?fault? in my runner with his/her running form (like tip-toe running, low knee lift, foot swinging outward, etc.), I don?t even want to point out to them straight. What that does is to make them too self-conscious and, as a result, awkward. All the ?ideas? of ?correct? running form, or gait, won?t do you any good if you can?t correct it. The issue could be ?structural? in which case it would be a bit hard to correct (like if one of your legs is shorter than the other, well, how do you ?lengthen? the short leg?); on the other hand, most of the issues are usually muscular?weak muscles; i.e.; you can?t lift your knees (weak quads) or can?t straighten your ?back-leg? (weak hamstring), etc.

Now basically you have 3 tasks at hand; a) figure out what your problem is accurately; and b) figure out what?s causing it; and c) then figure out how you can fix it?not by ?thinking about it? but by ?working on it?.

From what I?ve read from your post (took me 3 times to read it over to kinda get the idea, man!), I take what?s happening (and correct me if I?m wrong) is: As you ?push-off? the ground, your leg extend fine but, instead of bending you knee (of the push-off leg) and bring your foot up underneath (or close to) your butt, it sort of draws a pendulum line, dragging along close to the ground, and move your foot directly to the front??? Is this correct? Assuming it is, here are some of possible issues: 1) if you bring your foot low to the front, most likely, you would stick your foot out in the front, trying to cover the ground, and land hard on your heel, getting a lot of shock shooting up in your leg; 2) because you?re not folding your knee, you leg lever is longer (than when you ?fold? your leg) and it moves more slowly than a short lever; 3) because you?re not ?reaching out? and your stride would be shorter (let me get this thing clear, however; you really don?t want to ?reach out in the front? but you still try and that is why, if you?re swinging your foot low, you?re getting shock of landing, landing hard on the heel). This is usually caused by weak hamstrings and weak quads. Hams are what ?fold? the lower leg up with the foot coming up close to your butt; and quads are what bring your knee up (along with Psoas muscles deep in the tummy=core muscles). Best way to correct this would be; A) do some drills; or B) work on the hills (resistance work). For hill work, exercise called Steep Hill Running would work well. You would find some steepish hill of about 200m long and run up the hill slowly with exaggerated high knee action. You don?t want to run it too fast because then it will become too highly anaerobic and the workout might finish prematurely. You?ll be working on muscle power and form here. Give your legs adequate recovery between the reps so you can maintain the correct form. Concentrate on good technique; good back-leg extension, ankle flexibility, good knee lift, straight arm swing, straight back (don?t look down), etc.

For the drills, try the followings. After warming-up (about 15? of easy jogging), do:

(1) High knee drill: using short quick steps with slow forward momentum, bring your knees up high, almost parallel to the ground. Keep your back straight, swing your arms straight front and back (not side way) vigorously? Do this 2~3 times of about 30~50m.
(2) Butt kick: you might have done this before; just like High Knee, with short quick steps, kick your feet backward, trying to flick your butt. Don?t look down or you might fall over! Do this 2~3 times of about 30~50m.
(3) Striding: This is one of Lydiard?s exercises. Just like High Knee, except when you bring your knee up high in the front, instead of just bringing your foot down, kick your foot forward all the way out and then swing down. We have a visual at our website (not Hill Training DVD but ?Hill Training and Sprint Drills? section. This is actually quite tricky to do; if you don?t have a good balance, you?ll fall over?this would teach you a good balance and straight arm swing. If you have a hard time acquiring this technique, try walk with this, then skip with this before you try running with it. Try to make a half circle motion in your front. You should ?reach out? to the front with your foot, however, by the time your foot is coming down and almost touches the ground, your foot should already be on the backward swing (Paw-back) so as to eliminate landing shock. This is how sprinters run. Although you will NOT run like this in longer distances, by exaggerating the action, you will acquire smooth economic running technique. Try to do 2~3 times of 50+m if you can.

After doing these drills, make sure you run regularly, concentrating on the points you?ve just worked on: high knee, shortening of the lever and reaching out and making a circular motion. Quite often, people would do these exercises but without knowing WHY they are doing them?consequently as soon as they start ?running regularly?, they?ll forget all these important points. So keep these points in mind, run 100m, nice and easy and FAST but RELAXED, checking these points. Walk back or jog around the rest of 300m (if done on track) and repeat 2~5 times.

I like to tell runners to get the image of ?drawing a circle with your legs?. Of course, technically, it?s not quite ?drawing a circle? (you can?t quite do that?) and some theorist (?or Richard99) might argue but I think you get the idea?by bringing your knee high and, instead of sticking your leg straight out in the front, you will reach out and ?paw-back?. Foot moving close to the ground, swinging like a pendulum, is kind of like a triangle (well, once again, not quite a triangle but I think you?ll know what I?m talking about) with your hip being the top point.

Now, just in case, if what you?re talking about is more like your foot sticking out laterally and swinging wide sideway, well, then it?s a completely different story and, if THIS is the case, let me know cuz this would require totally different solution!

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jim Sullivan:
That's disappointing. I read the topic as "Nobbygate" and was hoping for some kind of scandal. Never mind.<HR>

Sorry, but I tried to cover that up. That's the hotel I stayed in Houston, wasn't it? ;o)

quote:<HR>Originally posted by walrusgod:
This could be a quad flexibility issue. Just generally make sure that you're flexible in ALL your leg muscles, as you need a certain ROM for correct techinque. Folding the leg up (or in sprinting it can be called stepping over, as in stepping over the opposite knee) means, as Nobby said, a much shorter lever, and hence less work for the hip flexors, which are often a tight muscle. If you think about the muscles which bring the leg forward and the muscles that bring the leg backwards, the hip flexors are tiny compared to the gluts, so it makes sense to reduce strain on them.

Also, you should watch videos of elite runners, and observe their technique, as most of them should have great technique. Correct technique also comes from adequate strength levels - do NOT go for higher knees to run faster. Every action has an equal and opposite reaction. To achieve greater knee lift you must have adequate flexibility and strength. In other words, you need to put down more force against the ground to run faster, not force your knees upwards.

If the problems still doesn't go away with all that in place, you could possibly see about any biomechanical problems, such as a leg length discrepancy, which might cause certain muscles to become overworked, forcing other muscles to compensate and eventually resulting in a compromised running action.

Correct running form is basically straight posture, not leaning much, footstrike close to your COM (it will get closer to this as you go faster) stepping over, and running at a "natural" frequency and stride length for you ie. not overstriding. Arm action isn't hugely important in distance running, but its role is to counteract the rotational forces developed around the pelvis. Just keep everything nice and relaxed, so don't clench your fists or jaw.<HR>

Wow, walrus. I'm very impressed! ;o)

quote:<HR>Originally posted by gregw:
Nobby et al, I understand you are saying you can't really consciously think your way to better form, but what do you think about propioceptive cues[/URL" target="_blank"> (a fancy word for mental images).<HR>

G

No, I'm certainly not suggesting using them alone. (In fact, I'm not really recommending anything. Just wanted your opinion on their utility.) Matt Fitzgerald's (the author of that article) book recommends doing drills, resistance training (things like one-legged squats), and dynamic flexibility exercises (particular kind of stretching) as well as these sensor cues to improve your stride. He gives you one cue a week to think about during all your running.

lol thanks Nobby your post wasn't too shabby either.

With sensory cues, you may have to try a few before you suddenly understand and think "Ah yeah I know exactly what you mean now". It varies from person to person, as some people will grasp different mental images better than other. But with the basics of flexiblity and strength in place, along with some good drills if there are still problem areas everything should fall into place. Stretch whenever you have the opportunity, until you definitely have enough flexibility, and then you can just maintain it with less stretching.

quote:<HR>Originally posted by gregw:
No, I'm certainly not suggesting using them alone. (In fact, I'm not really recommending anything. Just wanted your opinion on their utility.) Matt Fitzgerald's (the author of that article) book recommends doing drills, resistance training (things like one-legged squats), and dynamic flexibility exercises (particular kind of stretching) as well as these sensor cues to improve your stride. He gives you one cue a week to think about during all your running.<HR>

Greg:

Good! We certainly don't need any more "Richard"!

Well, I now had a chance to sit down and read the whole article. It's actually quite legit, I think. It's more like "conditioned resonse" rather than "image training". "Image training" to me is what high jumpers and triple jumpers do before their try. I'm sure you've seen them. They would actually do the run around the curve and the arm action and all that "in their head" before they start. That's image training. They mainly want to get the rhythm (funny sometimes, particularly triple jumper, when they do this, they would take 3 or 4 seconds for each hop and step and jump but their actual jump is much shorter! ;o)). What this article talks about, I think, is conditioned response that Dr. Pavlov found out with a drooling dog as we all know. When you work on a proper running technique, you want to have certain "check points" or as this guy calls "cues". So with these certain "cues", your body would automatically move the way you want it to move. Well, once again, this could only work out when you do this repetitively for quite some time.

I remember the late Ron Daws talked about the time he was doing 800 repeats with others and started to struggle. He had a cue (something like "relax!") and he would start to "float" like he would when he's doing fast relaxed strides. This is because he practiced when he did strides. This, to me, is more like conditioned response.

The problem with the articles, I personally think, is that there are too many cues. I listed only 3 simply because, well, think about it; if you have 10 points, you're doiong the strides and go like "Gee, what was the point #4?" and, by the time you get to point 7, you'll be done running 120m! I do have more points than 3 but I think 3 is just about how many you can comfortably focus during the run of 100~150m strides. Of course, you can work on 3 points each time you do it; but that could be a bit tricky too.

Some of the cues are quite interesting when you deliver them. I remember the late Kiyoshi Nakamura used to tell his runners to "look at the top of the tree" when you start to struggle. This means; you need to get your back straight, stick your chest out... If your eye focus goes down, you can't open up your chest to breathe in lots of oxygen; and you can't lift your knees high if you're looking down. So this single cue took care of several elements.