The article said very clearly that the monk story was false - I'd be interested to know even why they brought it up then.

Training will take you farther and faster than any sort of mind trick. If it gets tough and painful - it'll certainly help to be able to take your mind off the pain; that's certainly not new info.

When all is said and done, your mind cannot make your body do something it's not conditioned to do.

What an article. Aside from the ridiculous monk story, there's this:

Marian Westley, a 35-year-old oceanographer in Princeton, N.J., and another running friend of mine, used several mental strategies in the recent Philadelphia marathon.

She slowed herself down at the start by telling herself repeatedly that she was storing energy in the bank. And when she tired near the race?s finish, she concentrated on pumping her arms. ?I thought about letting my arms run the race for me, taking the pressure off my legs.?

She finished in three hours and 43 minutes, meeting her goal of qualifying for the Boston Marathon.

wow. Someone's friend ran a BQ by running conservatively at the start.

WHAT A BREAKTHROUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This "mind over mind over body" concept is an interesting one, and seems to be in line with what I've heard referred to as the "central governor model" put forth by Tim Noakes in his Lore of Running. My non-expert take on this idea is that the brain and nervous system are the key factors for controlling sensations of discomfort, fatigue, exhaustion, and even muscle breakdown - not the other way around. Thus training is a means to push the threshold out where the brain starts sending those signals and shutting things down. I still haven't grasped how this should alter the way any runner trains or races.

The article talks about the effectiveness of "disassociation" to ignore those fatigue signals and push beyond what the brain is setting as a limit. I think it's important to distinguish between this sort of mental technique, and the kind of mind wandering that many of us engage in during our daily "easy runs." Focusing on stride, breathing, or staying relaxed and positive in order to divert attention away from discomfort is much different than the kind of free association that might alleviate boredom on the treadmill or slow long run. I know in a race of any length such wandering thoughts will result in my slowing.

While mental techniques may be helpful to cope with and push through pain and discomfort during a race to avoid tanking, the usual ingredients for performance breakthrough - hard work through training and preparation - still hold true. There may be some minor changes to training methods depending on if one is "training the brain" as opposed to the body - but how relevant is that to most of us?

The article may leave some with the impression that there are shortcuts to making instantaneous fitness improvements, if only we tap into this Eastern mystic ability to fool our brains into believing we are capable of superhuman feats. I'm certainly open to believing I?m always capable of performing better than I had thought possible, but what better way to convince your brain that you are say, a sub three hour marathoner than by consistently training like one?

mental toughness is nothing new, nor is specifically training for it. most successful athletes do it.

some ppl can run through pain some can't
some ppl process pain differently


the mind and attitude make a massive difference in performance.


http://This message has been edited by littlewaywelt (edited Dec-10-2007).

quote:<HR>Originally posted by milkbaby:
Boy after reading that article, now do I feel stupid! Instead of training well and having a good pace strategy, I guess I should've "disassociated" during marathon races instead!

Maybe I am stupid, but at no time during any of the few marathons I've run have I ever found myself using disassociation as a mental tool. My PR marathon was the most painful race I've ever run, but I still loved every minute of it. What's life without a little suffering, eh?<HR>

Well put, milkbaby. Well put...

quote:<HR>Originally posted by dculp:
Nobby, how would you more specifically say Easterners have applied this "mind over mind over matter" more effectively through training?

I've certainly heard/read running coaches say part of the rationale behind harder paced training (intervals, tempo, etc.) is not only to adapt the body physically, but also to practice mentally handling the pain and discomfort. Personally, I think this is partly why my best times at a particular distance - say a 10k - come after I have already raced a few times within a month or two. Thus my brain can better "remember" and cope with the discomfort. Nevertheless, I do NOT discount the physiological adaptations that take place when I race more frequently that also contribute to improvement. I intuitively attribute fitness gains to adaptations taking place in all systems - cardiovascular, muscular, central nervous, etc.

I think most of us seem to be in agreement on this thread that there are no magical shortcuts to avoid solid training. I'd be genuinely interested if there are any that feel most of us are underperforming due to an inability to block or distract ourselves from brain messages compelling us to slow or stop. Obviously I'm skeptical, but I'll hear out any wild theory before utterly dismissing it.


<HR>

There are a lot more going on into running performance than just blood and muscles (hear me, Dick!). Just to give you a couple of examples...

The late Kiyoshi Nakamura always talked about to "be like a cherry tree up in the mountain." "Nobody comes up to see it; but it blooms just as beautifully. You are training not to be watched or admired. Even nobody was looking, you should do the best you can." Sure, it's a bit different "mind over matter" thing but it all comes down to it. You see, everyday's training is important. All the activities you do during the day, to an extent, count. Nakamura used to gather his runners, before the workout, and "preached"--it could be about the Bible, could be about Buddah, could be Miyamoto's "Tale of Five Rings". Anything to "enhance" athlete's way of thinking, way of life. Sometimes he might preach for couple of hours and then some of then would go out and jog for an hour (in other words, preaching could last longer than the workout itself!).

Just about a month ago, I had a dinner with the coach of Reiko Tosa. On his team, they have Tosa but they also have Yoko Shibui, a 2:19 marathoner, a former national record holder in the marathon and 10,000m. He said, "As far as physical talent is concerned, Shibui has 5 times more than Tosa," he said, (well, so much for Richard's genetic theory...) "but now Tosa is heading for her second Olympics. The difference is 'luck'." What he meant was Tosa drew luck to her. It was all about being appreciative, sincere and considerate to others. You don't run on your own. There are coaches, team manager, physio, team-mates, fans... In her case, her husband as well. You realize their effort and always be thankful and sincere. Then in return, they will do their best to you. Physio people would give their best massaging instead of just doing the hour's work.... That draws "luck" in the end. I know this is different from "mind over matter" but it's more of an attitude over simple physical training. But just think about it; when the moment of truth comes, you'd be hurting and wanting to give it a quit. You'd think about all the people who helped you... Wouldn't you want to do well for their sake as well? Well, in Tosa's case, I don't want to dwell over what I did for her before Osaka WC but, when I went to Japan for a business trip in October, I had a packet at the hotel waiting for me. She sent me a Japanese running magazine with her picture in the front cover with her autograph and a message written as well as their team polo shirt and a short message to thank me.

Training goes WAY beyond physical training. And mind preparation goes WAAAAAY beyond just running. I always think of Douglas Wakihuri. He went to Japan in early 1980s; trained under Nakamura. He went through all the same "mental training" as Seko and others. He became the FIRST Kenyan to win the Olympic medal in the marathon (silver in 1988). Nakamura used to speak very highly of Douglas. Said he would wipe out Japanese if he understood the mental side of marathoning. He went on to win WC Rome, silver in 88, Commonwealth Games marathon in 90, London marathon, New York City marathon, World Cup marathon... Could it have been anything to do with the coincidence that the only other Kenyan (man) to have won the medal in the Olympics is another Japan-based guy; Wainaina. Of course, now we have Wanjiru doing fairly well. It'll be interesting comes Beijing...

I have 2 of Nakamura's books. It talks practically NOTHING about training. It's all mental side of story and his preaching. Great books.