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Click to view Jim24315's profile Legend 1,988 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
375. Sep 27, 2007 8:26 PM in response to: fredurie
quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sun Raider:
Jim


Weights will do very little for form. They can help upper body but they will only add more stress to your legs if you do lower body. You run enough miles already.

Strider's, butt kicks, hops and general sprinters drills will be more effective.
It can change your form, quicken your leg turnover and extend your stride (which means you cover more ground with each foot strike). That can mean being a faster runner.

Raider
<HR>


Thanks for the response. I've been thinking a lot about what I want to do next. If I can PR in the HM next month I will have achieved all the goals I set for myself at the beginning of the year. There's a 30k following it that I've committed to, but I've been off and on about the idea mentally. After that there are a few months before USATF series resumes.

Speed is definitely a missing element for me. I haven't won a single sprint finish this year and form isn't so good. Occasionally I check out letsrun.com and there's a guy over there with SoCalPete handle who said something very similar to what you just did. His real name is Peter Magill, I think, and he just ran 32:20 at the race I was in on Sunday. He's 46. As big a believer as I am in developing endurance as much as possible, I think I'm close to as far as I can go with it alone. The longer distances are what I enjoy the most, but even they require a certain amount of speed.
Click to view Sun Raider's profile Legend 365 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
376. Sep 27, 2007 10:52 PM in response to: fredurie
I think you are on the right track. Endurance comes first. You might be surprised that developing speed doesn't have to mean a whole bunch of intervals. You can add 100's 1-2 x a week and see some amazing results.
Chuck Smead, a very good marathoner back in the 1970's loved long runs in the hills punctuated by 10 x 110 (yards). He did quite well on this type of workout. Chuck ran a 2:13 back in the late 1970's or early 1980's and was the American record holder at 50K.
Click to view euphoric's profile Legend 894 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
377. Dec 26, 2007 9:51 PM in response to: fredurie
I think I can get it right today. Day off.

Rich, Pro, good luck this weekend.

Edited to add that I just got my bib #, 12449.

http://This message has been edited by euphoric (edited Sep-28-2007).
Click to view mainerunnah's profile Legend 902 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
378. Sep 28, 2007 6:07 AM in response to: fredurie
Thursday's run - Cloudy, 75 degrees with 78% humidity, yuk!

10.03 miles - 1:25:11 - (8:29)

HR - 123 / 145

Good luck Rich and Pro with your runs this weekend give em ****!

Euphie, nice runs and I have to agree with the Pro on your backing off and making sure your runs feel easy this next week. Of course now I have to do the same thing and use some discipline this next week and really back off a bit before my marathon on October 7th. Easy to say...harder to do at least for me.

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My User Profile[/URL" target="_blank">

"Keep on Running"
Bob
Click to view runningindc's profile Legend 252 posts since
Sep 29, 2007
381. Sep 28, 2007 12:26 PM in response to: fredurie
Friday
11:30 a.m.
76 and sunny

3.10 miles in 45:11 for a 14:35 m/m

1.57 miles at an avg. pace of 15:48
1.52 miles at an avg. pace of 13:19

Goal was to run more minutes and keep HR low, low, low

8 min warm up walk
Run 5 min
Walk 2-3 min
Repeated until I covered 3 miles.

goal achieved with no damage to foot. I will swim tomorrow?..


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Running in wellness

Liz

Lizs Profile[/URL" target="_blank">
Click to view glidegal's profile Legend 506 posts since
Mar 7, 2005
382. Sep 28, 2007 12:39 PM in response to: fredurie
Yay!! Liz is back!!! I admire your patience and cross training regime to get you here.

It's funny how after we've been running for awhile how we whine about our times (darn--wanted to nail 8 minute miles for 10 straight...) but when we've been on the DL, we are ecstatic with a 14:28 pace.... such is our addiction.
3.6 yesterday for me, 5.4 today. Didn't time them. Good weekends to all.
Euphie--can't wait to read your RR--- you're ready to rock! glidegal
Click to view OhioMom's profile Amateur 17 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
383. Sep 28, 2007 12:48 PM in response to: fredurie
Hello all. Thanks to everyone for the birthday wishes (last Friday). I haven't had time to read the forum since then but today is a quieter day at work (shhh, don't tell my boss).

I will be running the furthest I've run (in 25 years) this Sunday at the (Columbus) Marathon Training Run. It is a 20 miler. I am a bit anxious but my training buddy and I have successfully done a few 15 milers. The first one was awful, the next two weren't great, but weren't awful, and the last one was almost OK. I have to admit that the thought of running 11 miles after that is daunting, but....

This week has been light, if I run tomorrow then I'll break 30 miles, and I have been feeling tired out. However, took yesterday off (even though today was the scheduled off day) and today's 5 miler was better.

Today's weather is ideal running weather. 60's and sunny (although it was dark when I ran at 6:00 a.m.).

I'm enjoying reading about everyone's adventures and look forward to reading more (hopefully without a week between reads).

Happy running and good luck to anyone running in the Akron Marathon (free shoes and free beer, how do you beat that?) this weekend.
Click to view Spareribs823's profile Legend 1,859 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
384. Sep 28, 2007 1:54 PM in response to: fredurie
3.3 in 32 minutes, so I am now officially under 10 minute miles. The little milestones we prize so dearly!

Back home I did 29 minutes of exercises, and they are coming along nicely too. Tomorrow I will try to jog a 5-miler and see how that feels. Spareribs
Click to view OldXCguy's profile Pro 186 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
385. Sep 28, 2007 2:38 PM in response to: fredurie
Jim24315, I believe I have a similar problem in lacking speed. I log a good number of miles (frequently in the 70's per week), so my endurance is pretty good. Tempo runs aren't bad, but race pace feels hard. (I ran a few 5K's last spring in the 20:20-20:30 range, and managed to dip under 20 once on a really good day with a 19:50.) I suspect that improved speed would help my 5 & 10K times, even aside from any effect on my finishing kick, which is usually irrevelant. To quantify it, I struggle mightily to break 20 seconds for 100 meters, whereas I can remember years ago cruising through 16 X 400m w/ 200m recoveries in 72-73 seconds, or about 18s/ 100m. I suspect that chronic soreness and injuries to my hamstrings and glutes have shortened my stride. (My cadence seems OK at 175-180 in training, and >180 at faster paces.)
Would you (and others) say my problem is speed or more strength/stamina?
Click to view Spareribs823's profile Legend 1,859 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
386. Sep 28, 2007 2:58 PM in response to: fredurie
"I suspect that chronic soreness and injuries to my hamstrings and glutes have shortened my stride. (My cadence seems OK at 175-180 in training, and >180 at faster paces.)
Would you (and others) say my problem is speed or more strength/stamina?"

If anyone were to nail down my problems, that says it all. The chronic problems I have had for the last 3 years in the glute/hams have certainly affected my stride, and I am only now seeing a glimmer of hope through disciplined PT that is correcting it.

In the last short cycle I had of being in shape and on the way to being in better shape, I got hurt again, but during that time I felt when I raced that I could really "throw that front leg out there" with total comfort. The glute and ham problems keep you from doing that. The exercises I am doing now have added strength to muscles that were causing an imbalance in my stride and I am hopeful.

Jim and Raider were just talking about strengthening exercises and I agree with them, but my strengthening exercises are not to make my legs stronger; they are to make targeted muscles play a more active role in helping me to have a better stride, foot plant and hip rotation.

And for me to race well, I have to have all this work well, without any impediments, because I have NO SPEED! Spareribs
Click to view Sun Raider's profile Legend 365 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
387. Sep 28, 2007 3:04 PM in response to: fredurie
OldXCGuy

I think you don't have a problem. Well, you do have one and that is running 70 miles per week but if it makes your stronger then don't shoot the horse that brung ya.

You just don't have natural speed. I am 60 and can still work my way down to 15 second 100's. You sound like you have plenty of endurance. Don't know how old you are or what your 5K & 10K race times are but your tempo runs sound pretty strong. Work on what makes your strong. You could focus on speed and getting your 100's down but in the end you might just get injured.

The recommendation to Jim was that he do quick striders to improve form and turnover but not for the sake of pure speed. Really, if Jim didn't want to go this route who could blame him. He is plenty fast enough anyway.

I have always been fortunate in that my speed and endurance are balanced (even in my fastest days). Even now I don't really care about speed. I can still run in the 17's for 5K and in the low 5's for the mile. I am not going to mess it up by changing my "so called" training.

Raider
Click to view Sun Raider's profile Legend 365 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
388. Sep 28, 2007 5:15 PM in response to: fredurie
OhioMom

Use Galloway walk breaks throughout and you'll make 20 miles easily. Walk for something like a minute or two out of every mile. Walk fast but not hard. The walking relieves some of the fatigue on the running muscles.

Why be nervous? It's not like you are in an airplane and will crash if you stop. If you stop running you can always walk in or get picked up by a stranger in a car and last be seen on your way to Venice Beach in California where you become a female bodybuilder.

Raider
Click to view euphoric's profile Legend 894 posts since
Aug 14, 2007
389. Sep 29, 2007 8:41 AM in response to: fredurie
It's in the 50s today with a light breeze. 1/2 mile warm up with a too fast partner, 3 miles, 1/2 mile cool down. Never really felt warmed up. I think it is one of those days that makes you appreciate the good ones.