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9 Replies Last post: Dec 23, 2007 4:43 PM by newenglandfan08  
Click to view PapaBanucci's profile Pro 83 posts since
Dec 14, 2007
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Dec 19, 2007 5:47 AM

Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...


I assume you've had and are having a number of corporate meetings on this. Here's my input for your discussion.

Top issues for me:

1. No export feature. Why should I enter a single log entry into a site that won't let me export it later. I want to take my log with me for months and years to come independent of the commercial interests of the site hosting over time. While I respect free is free, I ask in return the site respect that my log is my log and if no sites were to offer export capabilities, I'd go back to paper or perhaps move on to Excel. I see no reason to enter a single run in a site without export capabilities.

2. Data loss in conversion. I love to ski (more than running in fact), enjoy hiking, walk a lot, even formally track "rest days" in my log. Then I have a few odds and ends of baseball, snow shoeing, etc. None of these custom workout types converted. Just running, cycling, and swimming (hmm, I guess Active doesn't have any snow shoeing events) converted the data over. I work in Information Technology and data loss is a very, very big deal. I hear that the active folks tried and worked hard and tested, but I'm wondering if they even bothered to test with any cross-training data. Amazing, isn't cross-training pretty common??? How could there have not been test cases for that? I know in the real world what happens to folks who do IT system conversion projects that go like this. Doesn't work out so well.

3. Wrong UI metaphor. I want a running log. Want to chart week over week stats, month over month stats. Mostly about prevention of injury really. Comparing how my body feels vs. what I am running this week vs. what I ran last week. Considering surfaces. Want to know if pace has gone up or down considering all this factors. For me a log is mostly about injury prevention. So I can integrate facts and feelings. So I can see today and today's workout in the context of the Big Picture. The Active running "log," isn't really a running log, but more of a newbie's calendar. It seems designed to answer one very specific newbie's question - What am I supposed to do today? For me that question isn't as simple as a purchased training program (though I've used a number of programs and modified a number of programs such as the free ones from Cool Running, Hal Higdon, or Jeff Galloway). There isn't even a what am I supposed to do today question. What I am going to do today fits in the context of the rest of my workouts and with my life, such as what's going on over the weekend and what kind of time I'll have. Anyhow, the whole UI metaphor of the Active site is wrong, just plain wrong for me and I suspect it would be for many dedicated runners as well.

4. Lack of understanding of social networking. Issue #1 was about a lack of understanding of the value a runner places on his or her log. Issue #2 was about a lack of core competency in IT system conversions as well as a lack of understanding of the commonality of cross-trailing. Issue #3 was about a lack of understanding of runners. This is about a lack of understanding of how social networking really works and how social networks can "tip" as easily as they appeared to be so strong a sticky prior. The Active folks should have done a feature-by-feature comparison of Cool Running vs. Active, as well as against runningahead.com and put together a little checklist matrix to see what people gained and lost with different options. Should have closed the gap feature-wise. And should have been present in the Cool Running forums for months prior to the conversion talking about all of this. The folks who started out with C&P spam (a no-no when people have real issues) here after the conversion, should have been making friends and acquitances over on the Cool Running side way ahead of time. In the social networking world, it's all based upon people's word and credibility. It's about the people. You weren't there with the people. People need to be real runners with a real passion for the numbers about running with real familiarity of the Cool Running vs. Active vs. runningahead.com vs. other features.

5. Lack of effectiveness in communications and expectations setting. I think a lot of people just completely missed there was going to be a conversion. Check your log files and see how many people just used the log for 30 seconds per day and didn't go to the forums or didn't even read your pages where you explain the "upgrade" and extol its wonderful "features." Why didn't you insert a 1/2 deep countdown banner in the main log posting page??? "Active Trainer Countdown: 14 days until your log is moved from Cool Running to Active Networks. Click to learn more..." I think you would have give folks more awareness. And I think you should have put right on that landing page, "be sure to back up your log file." And the comparison of Active features vs. Cool Running and the rest. And a link to "Meet Sara" or whoever it would be supporting the community through the process.

Active folks, I highly recommend you take this post and print it out and take it to the appropriate corporate meeting you're having on this. There's a lot to be learned here. Top recommending though is that you guys go through and read The Tipping Point for some increased insights into social networks. Second recommendation is that you, at least those of you who have a passion for the numbers, get out there and run and cross-train. And then after your workouts, record your workouts into Cool Running, into Active, into runningahead.com, and into one or two other sites. Analyze your data in each. See what you learn about your training based upon what info each site is giving you. Communicate with others in each of the site's forums. Then have some more corporate planning meetings based upon what you learned from all of that. We're talking systematic analysis of the competition's features, passion for functionality, love of running.

If you do these things, you'll have the best site bar none. Passion for running + passion for the numbers + systematic study of the competition + "getting" social networking + solid user centered design skills + sufficent software development and other IT skills + word of mouth in running communities.

This is no different than training. You need to set some goals and set some stretch goals and set the bar high and push yourself like never before.

That's how goals are achieved.

Best of luck in your endeavors.

(Also, please have the courage to not delete this post. Instead a good reply is, "That's really good food for thought and we're discussing how we can take this and other ideas which have received to heart.")

Click to view Michael.'s profile Community Moderator 676 posts since
Nov 9, 2007
1. Dec 19, 2007 2:00 PM in response to: PapaBanucci
Re: Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...

I have to agree with PapaBanucci on #3. This is big with me also and better reporting needs to be implemented. I hope future versions will address this. The whole point of entering data is to extract the data later in useful reports. For me this is right under retriving peoples data and recovering the forum archive.


3. Wrong UI metaphor. I want a running log. Want to chart week over week
stats, month over month stats. Mostly about prevention of injury really.
Comparing how my body feels vs. what I am running this week vs. what I ran last
week. Considering surfaces. Want to know if pace has gone up or down considering
all this factors. For me a log is mostly about injury prevention. So I can
integrate facts and feelings. So I can see today and today's workout in the
context of the Big Picture.

Click to view Active Sara's profile Active.com Staff 1,018 posts since
Oct 2, 2007
2. Dec 19, 2007 8:11 PM in response to: Michael.
Re: Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...
I brought it to the meeting. You have been heard. This is good detailed feedback.

Thank you!

Click to view Active Sara's profile Active.com Staff 1,018 posts since
Oct 2, 2007
4. Dec 20, 2007 8:12 AM in response to: PapaBanucci
Re: Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...
A whole lot of work is right. I'm game and I know the people I work with are too. The changes aren't as quick and easy as some people think, but we are definitely moving. We know we need too. I wanted to thank you again for your feedback though. It's great to get well thought out input.
Click to view Croydon's profile Amateur 28 posts since
Sep 16, 2007
5. Dec 20, 2007 11:47 AM in response to: Active Sara
Re: Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...
This is the most positive thread I've read so far. I am beginning to believe that Active is actually listening and willing to change. More to the point they realize they had better. As for training plans, I can't use a generated plan. My work schedule won't allow it. My training plan in on a spreadsheet that I make changes to on a weekly basis. So I'm not interested in buying plans which is why this whole calendar thing won't work for me. Just having a log that I could enter what I did in the last two or three days efficiently and look at some totals were all I needed. I'm not the type of customer Active is going to make money off of. Geez, I even have script blockers on my Firefox so I don't even see the ads or banners. I realize I represent a small percentage, I'm just trying to give you one more data point. In about a month I'll decide to stay with RuningAhead or see your changes and try using it. For now my log is taking up space on your server that may as well be deleted.
Click to view JPGarland's profile Legend 777 posts since
Dec 7, 2007
8. Dec 23, 2007 12:10 PM in response to: PapaBanucci
Re: Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...

I only recently camge upon this.

CoolRunning is almost dead. Most of the forums have virtually disappeared. I have been posting frequently saying that I don't intend to leave, but the horse may have fled. I have posted chiefly on Boomers and Beyond.

  • You need to give regular updates as to the progress of the transition, without corporate doublespeak, on each thread. Here's the issue/here's what's being done. On some threads, the old threads have suddenly appeared, but only some of them. On others, there are no historical threads.

  • You need to have a single spot for people to post complaints and you need to respond with respect to what, if anything, is being done about it. Things like running into difficulty logging in.

The log is turning into a disaster. I've been using it since 2002, but I can't get info on a weekly basis (as in graphing weekly mileage) and who knows how to export my data for Excel purposes so I have it.
Click to view newenglandfan08's profile Legend 462 posts since
Apr 23, 2006
9. Dec 23, 2007 4:43 PM in response to: Active Sara
Re: Input for Active's Corporate Meetings...

haha, wow i can not believe this place

Knowing big corpate things, i find it hard to believe that this actully got read at a meeting maybe used as scrape paper

I can guarntee that you have lost atleast half of the members at cool running if not more, this is my feedback and please do not apolgize again