Last long run before 100-miler?

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RunLongVT

163 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

Dec 27, 2007 1:41 AM

Last long run before 100-miler?

Hi folks. I'd like to run Vermont next year and I'm trying to formulate a long-range training plan. It's amazing how little there is out there on how to train for a 100. I think I have a general idea of what it would take to get there, but would like some help on the peaking-tapering transition part of my rough plan.

Generally, how long is your longest long run in preparation for a 100, and how long before your hundred do you do your last long run? I recall SherpaJohn saying that he ran a 50k four weeks prior, and that he wouldnt go any longer/later than that.

Right now, I'm doing 45-55 per week, running an easy marathon to 35-miler for my long run every third or fourth week. I recover quickly from these long runs and am looking forward to stepping them up to 50 milers- I'm entered to run 50 miles at the Vermont 50 and will hopefully do so again at the Stonecat races in November. Over the winter I'd like to gradually increase my milage from the 45-55 I'm at now to 60-70 m/p/w, and keep running an easy marathon about once a month. I'd like to run 50 at least twice next spring, perhaps at Bull Run Run in April and Wapack in May.

I think that having run a 100k or 70-miler would give me a lot more confidence than only having run 50's going into the 100 miler, so I was thinking of running one in early June. The Laurel Highlands 70-miler in PA is, I believe, five weeks before Vermont, but that strikes me as a bit close to allow for recovery. Do any of you do that one and Vermont, or have another favorite race at peak training time? I don't plan to run any of the 50's or the 70m/100k to exhaustion, but am looking at them more as long training runs, focusing on learning to be out there and stay fueled and comfortable for hours on end. I have a nice 35 mile loop I do here in Burlington, and was thinking of running it twice for a 70 mile total in the first week of June instead of the Highlands race. I would probably do one more long run, probably the Finger Lakes 50k, at the end of June, three weeks before Vermont.

Any thoughts? I appreciate your input.

http://This message has been edited by RunLongVT (edited Jul-26-2007).

Sarah108

139 posts since
May 10, 2004

1. Jul 26, 2007 3:18 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

Personally, I do not believe that you need to run a 100K or longer before Vermont. Bull Run Run is a good choice for an early spring 50. Then there is the Pineland 50K in May. You could also do the Nipmuck Trail Marathon, which is about a week after Pineland. Also, there is the Mother's Day GAC 6 hour run and the Mt. Aggie 6 hour on the weekend of WSER. There is also SJ's Pittsfield Peaks 50 which I assume they are doing next year. In my opinion, trying to hit all or most of those would be great 100 mile training. They are pretty well spaced apart so you would have time to recover. To supplement that, I would do some long hikes in the mountains to get ready for the climbing.

Ickybaluky

1 posts since
Apr 25, 2007

2. Jul 26, 2007 3:40 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

I haven't run a 100 yet (plan to next year), but training for 50 I would to string long runs back-to-back to build endurance. For instance, I might run 20 on Saturday and 30 on Sunday, with Friday and Monday being off days. That was easier to it into a busy schedule (Tu-W-Th are just maintenance runs) and seemed to work well.

I think training for a 100 I'd employ a simliar strategy, just make the runs a little longer. I think stringing long runs together is key to training.

RunLongVT

163 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

3. Jul 26, 2007 4:16 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

Thanks for your help!

I've definitely heard of using back-to-backs and have considered it.

Thanks for the race suggestions, Sarah108, especially Pittsfield Peaks- that may be right on the money. It's one tough mother of a race from what I hear, and probably a lot better training for VT (i.e. TONS of vertical) than my very flat 55k/110k loop. I liked the idea of doing something longer to reduce the "this is new territory for me" distance I have to run, but I'm sure the 50-milers will teach me plenty about how to keep myself going for so long.

Sherpa John

367 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

4. Jul 26, 2007 4:52 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

OK.. keep in mind that above all else.. this ultra-running thing is very much "personal." What works for YOU is going to be what works for YOU. My longest run prior to Vermont was 50 Miles on June 9th.. about a month an a half out. It was indeed PIttsfield Peaks.. and in my honest opinion.. that course is PERFECT training. If not so much for the vertical and distance (actually 56 or so miles), but the time on your feet AND how it plays into your mental game. After finishing something like Pittsfield.. you can do ANYTHING.

I also ran the 50K Pemi-Loop exactly one month out from VT100 and then started my taper (sorta)...

Also.. what I think is an even better training weekend is something like this ... Friday - 20 Miles; Saturday - 30 Miles; Sunday - 20 Miles. That'll train your legs to keep turning over when tired and fatigued and also give yourself the opportunity to feel what its like. Ya know.. waddling up and down hills ; )

I'll e-mail you my Excel Spreadsheet..

I heard a lot of folks did Finger Lakes 50 before the VT100.. but I'm not sure if maybe that race is. TOO close to the actual VT100 to be effective at all.

For my 1st 100 Miler my weekly mileage toped out at 90 Miles in a 7 day period (75mpw on the spreadhseet).. for the VT100.. I topped out at 58mpw. You don't have to go all out here.. most of it is mental and coditioning. Try to run a 50K every other weekend whether its an official race or a fun run of your own... substitute with a 50 Miler on one of those 50K days once a month.. you'll be golden!

RunLongVT

163 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

5. Jul 27, 2007 10:41 AM

in response to: RunLongVT

Thanks, John, that's pretty much the picture I'm getting. I'm finding races that fit that kind of sequence and I think things are coming together. Pittsfield Peaks does look perfect as the last big run, and I'll probably be running just the 50k at the Finger Lakes three weeks out- my girlfriend is hoping to make it her first ultra and I'm the designated pacer.

I've got this type-A perfectionist thing (I'm dealing with it, really), and the little voices want me to be as prepared as humanly possible, rather than seeing how little I can do and get away with it. So, a lot of 50-milers is looking good, and maybe even the Hellgate 100k this winter. We'll see how the VT50 goes and take it from there. With the growing list of races I've got here for the fall, through the winter and into and through the spring, I think that if I survive what I'm laying out as prep, I'll do fine in the race.

mudrunner040

381 posts since
May 27, 2004

6. Jul 27, 2007 11:34 AM

in response to: RunLongVT

RunLong...I have a friend who is obsessed with planning.
He has run himself ragged & is frantic with doubt for his upcoming 100 (S.T.O.R.M.Y.) in 2 weeks...the main reason is that he is constantly comparing his training & ability vs. others.
Flash back to Western Staes a few weeks ago...a few of our friends were running there & a good chunk of them DNF'ed. His concern is that they put in almost double the training that he does, yet they didn't finish (the real reason, was that they were elite runners going for top 10 placements & they ran themselves into the ground...it's a whole different ball game at that level).
He is also stressing abourt splits, drop bags, etc... The best thing to do, would be to ditch the watch & throw out the split table. He is a talented runner who has put in the miles

What I am getting to, is that while it is great to plan ahead, it is equally important to be adaptable. There is so much more to running a 100 than distance & time spent on your feet....mental preparation is often overlooked. You might get more out of running 50k through the night

That said, there are a bazzillion ways to train for a 100...but as far as numbers go, my only constant is that I do a 50m to 100k run 4 to 6 weeks out from the race.

...Oh....& NEVER think of it as "training"...it should always be fun.

RunLongVT

163 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

7. Jul 27, 2007 1:49 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

Mudrunner-

Thank you for your perspective. Rest assured I am more trying to gather information and opinions from those who have gone before me about what it takes to complete this arduous distance, yourself included, than trying to plan my build-up with meticulous and inflexible specificity. I realize that this is a long and unique journey and that flexibility and adapting this process to my personal progression and abilities will be essential.

Pacing SherpaJohn in the early morning hours of the race last weekend was an impressive lesson in the importance of mental preparation and fortitude. Your point about the importance of mental preparation is well taken. I am definitely planning to do some long night runs and sleep-deprived runs to prepare for this aspect, as well as seek out races with elements that test your mental strength beyond the norm, such as the Hellgate 100k in December with its frigid conditions and 12:01am start.

mudrunner040

381 posts since
May 27, 2004

8. Jul 27, 2007 2:29 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

Sounds like you've struck the right balance in preparation. Keep us updated.

Sarah108

139 posts since
May 10, 2004

9. Jul 27, 2007 4:00 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

The other thing is, you can be wildly underprepared and still finish. I only did 2 runs longer than 20 miles this whole entire year, and I finished.

RunLongVT

163 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

10. Jul 27, 2007 4:20 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

quote:<HR>Originally posted by Sarah108:
...wildly underprepared... <HR>

That's a fantastic expression.

Way to be a total trooper and tough it out, by the way. I've done marathons on training like that, but a 100? Wow.

Sarah108

139 posts since
May 10, 2004

11. Jul 28, 2007 9:11 AM

in response to: RunLongVT

Well I've done 3 50s, some 50ks, and had run 76 miles of the course last year, so I'm not a total newbie. I wouldn't recommend training that way! But it just goes to show how much of running a 100 is mental. If you let the demons get to you, it won't matter how fit you are. If you figure out a way to suck it up and deal with it, you can overcome less than perfect training. So bottom line is, train hard, but don't freak out if things don't quite work out the way you planned.

Sarah108

139 posts since
May 10, 2004

12. Jul 28, 2007 9:16 AM

in response to: RunLongVT

The other thing is, don't forget Vermont has a service requirement. You have to volunteer at an ultra event for at least 8 hours in order to qualify. So you have to factor that into your planning too. Last year, I volunteered at Stonecat. I think this year I'm going to run Stonecat, so I might see about volunteering at the Maine Track Club 50, which I ran last year.

RunLongVT

163 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

13. Jul 31, 2007 10:28 AM

in response to: RunLongVT

I think the service requirement is a great idea, and a fantastic way to encourge all of us to reinvest a little something in the sport.

But, geeze... I have to go to a trail race and not run???

Maybe I can run the short-race option at a couple of races and then volunteer the rest of the day... or help mark a course the day before I race it... or run the course AGAIN as a sweeper!!!

This might not be so bad after all... :O)

jholtthief

111 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

14. Jul 31, 2007 6:45 PM

in response to: RunLongVT

My longest run in the VT build-up this year was BRR (50 miles) the second week of april. The rest of my long runs were on very hilly routes, and ranged in distance from 20 to 40 miles. The last one was Finger Lakes (50k).

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Dec 27, 2007 1:41 AM

Last long run before 100-miler?

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