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2827 Views 20 Replies Latest reply: Jan 3, 2008 1:20 PM by MosesinNefretiri 1 2 Previous Next
ioffirst Rookie 16 posts since
Dec 31, 2007
Currently Being Moderated

Dec 31, 2007 7:06 AM

Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

?

  • kommish777 Rookie 23 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    2. Dec 31, 2007 7:51 AM (in response to ioffirst)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

    ioffirst wrote:

    Nearly 76% of violent

    criminals are Christian and NO, most of these Christians did not convert after

    conviction, they were Christian at the time of the crime.  The greatest

    genocides in human history stemmed from the Christian faith.  If you examine

    secular societies in comparison to religious societies; secular societies will

    consistently have less crime, unemployment, corruption and more freedom, share

    of wealth and a higher standard of living.  Nearly EVERY single advancement

    towards morality (I.E: ceasing native genocide, freeing the slaves and women’s

    suffrage) was OPPOSED by the church and Christian organizations.

    Can you define Christian please. Just because someone grew up in a "Christian" home or a "Christian" country doesn't qualify them as a Christian. What makes someone a Christian?

  • pigeye Rookie 87 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    4. Dec 31, 2007 8:45 AM (in response to kommish777)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

    kommish777 wrote:
    ioffirst wrote:

    Nearly 76% of violent

    criminals are Christian and NO, most of these Christians did not convert after

    conviction, they were Christian at the time of the crime.  The greatest

    genocides in human history stemmed from the Christian faith.  If you examine

    secular societies in comparison to religious societies; secular societies will

    consistently have less crime, unemployment, corruption and more freedom, share

    of wealth and a higher standard of living.  Nearly EVERY single advancement

    towards morality (I.E: ceasing native genocide, freeing the slaves and women’s

    suffrage) was OPPOSED by the church and Christian organizations.

    Can you define Christian please. Just because someone grew up in a "Christian" home or a "Christian" country doesn't qualify them as a Christian. What makes someone a Christian?

    What is your definition?

  • Ray Andrews Rookie 226 posts since
    Dec 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    5. Dec 31, 2007 8:58 AM (in response to ioffirst)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

    ioffirst wrote:I define Christian as anyone who believes that Jesus is the son of God and accepts Jesus as his savior.

     

    Okay, so share with us your methodology for coming up with the statistic that "nearly 76% of violent criminals are Christian."  Did you ask God and He told you that?  Who else but God knows who really is a Christian and who is just calling themself one?

     

     

     

     

     

    Oh, right:  You read that statistic in a Pew Research poll or somesuch.

     

     

     

     

     

    This is not the same kind of statistic as saying some kind of butter is 76% fat-free.  What experiment do you conduct on a person to ascertain whether or not they're a Christian--bit them on the *** and see if they cuss?  And people can self-identify as anything but that doesn't make them that; why, I could call myself a Zeta Reticulan.

     

     

     

     

     

    Statements like "secular societies will consistently have less crime, unemployment, corruption and more freedom, share of wealth and a higher standard of living" are screaming out your antichristian bias, neighbor.  Sorry, but you have no ceteris paribus on which to base it.  It's your opinionand you're entitled to thatbut that's all it is.   

     

     

  • pigeye Rookie 87 posts since
    Dec 13, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    6. Dec 31, 2007 9:03 AM (in response to Ray Andrews)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

    So, Ray, are people who identify themselves as christians mistaken or lying? And what fraction of them are not really christians?

  • Ray Andrews Rookie 226 posts since
    Dec 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    9. Dec 31, 2007 9:50 AM (in response to ioffirst)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?
    ioffirst wrote:
    Ray Andrews wrote:

     

    Statements like "secular societies will consistently have less crime, unemployment, corruption and more freedom, share of wealth and a higher standard of living" are screaming out your antichristian bias, neighbor. Sorry, but you have no ceteris paribus on which to base it. It's your opinionand you're entitled to thatbut that's all it is.

    The Federal Bureau of Prisons does have statistics on religious

    affiliations of inmates. The following are total number of

    inmates per religion category:

     

    Response Number %

    ---------------------------- --------

    Catholic 29267 39.164%

    Protestant 26162 35.008%

    Muslim 5435 7.273%

    American Indian 2408 3.222%

    Nation 1734 2.320%

    Rasta 1485 1.987%

    Jewish 1325 1.773%

    Church of Christ 1303 1.744%

    Pentecostal 1093 1.463%

    Moorish 1066 1.426%

    Buddhist 882 1.180%

    Jehovah Witness 665 0.890%

    Adventist 621 0.831%

    Orthodox 375 0.502%

    Mormon 298 0.399%

    Scientology 190 0.254%

    Atheist 156 0.209%

    Hindu 119 0.159%

    Santeria 117 0.157%

    Sikh 14 0.019%

    Bahai 9 0.012%

    Krishna 7 0.009%

    ---------------------------- --------

    Total Known Responses 74731 100.001% (rounding to 3 digits does this)

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Note that only 0.2% of prison inmates are atheist.

     

     

    So what's up with that Ray? Looks like being Christian is strongly correlated with being in prison. Ever do time Ray?

    Haven't done "time", but I have done prison ministry for twenty-something years.

     

     

     

     

     

    That's all well and good that the Federal Bureau of Prisons has inmates fill out questionnaires stating their religious affiliation. But for you to inductively leap from that information to an assertion about what kind of societysecular or Christianis "better" is specious.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Religious affiliation and personal faith are two different things. Even if this were not the case, there is a reason why they call the hoosegow a PENITENTiary: it has to do with REPENTANCE, or PENITENCE--i.e., "you got to change yo evil ways bebbe"...

     

     

    ...and all you have to do is examine recidivism rates to see how shallow (or nonexistent) the repentance/Christianity of prisoners can be in reality.

     

     

     

     

     

     

    if your point is that most people's religion is largely a matter of fantasy, you have a made better use of the statistics. But as a case against Christianity itself, it falls short.

  • Ray Andrews Rookie 226 posts since
    Dec 6, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    11. Dec 31, 2007 9:57 AM (in response to pigeye)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

    pigeye wrote:

    So, Ray, are people who identify themselves as christians mistaken or lying? And what fraction of them are not really christians?

     

     

    How about people who identify themselves as....scientists, Republicans, runners?  Do we simply accept for definitive the most widely-held & strongly-held defintions, or does there have to be a predicative factor?

     

     

     

     

     

    To "be a Christian," in Biblical terms, means Christ is in you--His Spirit is internalized, motivating, energizing, renewing, transforming.  "By their fruit ye shall know them; a good tree does not produce bad fruit."

     

     

     

     

     

    Does that help?  Maybe not, because we're so enmeshed as a society in relativism that there's no widely-held or strongly-held notions of what is "good" and what is "bad." 

     

     

     

     

     

    Oh Lord have mercy on us all!

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

  • BrettBH Rookie 40 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    12. Dec 31, 2007 10:15 AM (in response to ioffirst)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

    You wrote "The greatest genocides in human history stemmed from the Christian faith. "

     

     

    Mao Tst Tung, Joseph Stalin, and Pol Pot were all Atheists. I guess that you could cut a fine line and say that they were mass murders and did not conduct genocide, but with estimates exceeding 75 to 100 million victims, they were efficint.

     

     

    Darfur, Armenian Genocide, and Saddam Hussien gassing the Kurds were Islamist based Genocides that come close to putting to shame anything purely Christian based in the last 100 years.

     

     

    My point is that bad people run in ALL circles. They are drawn to power and will assume the robes of any role that will put them into a position of strength, whether that robe is a head of state or the head of a church.

     

     

    The genocide in the Sudan is a great example. There were Christian participants on BOTH sides, but these participants choose to wear the robe of their tribe instead of the robe of their religion.

     

     

  • runangel Rookie 15 posts since
    Dec 31, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    13. Dec 31, 2007 4:52 PM (in response to kommish777)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

     

     

     

    I guess to answer the question I'd need to talk to an atheist.

     

     

    Runangel

     

     

  • Lucifer Rookie 32 posts since
    Dec 14, 2007
    Currently Being Moderated
    14. Jan 2, 2008 5:19 AM (in response to ioffirst)
    Re: Do Christians have better morals than atheists?

     

    ioffirst wrote:

    Nearly 76% of violent

    criminals are Christian and NO, most of these Christians did not convert after

    conviction, they were Christian at the time of the crime. The greatest

    genocides in human history stemmed from the Christian faith. If you examine

    secular societies in comparison to religious societies; secular societies will

    consistently have less crime, unemployment, corruption and more freedom, share

    of wealth and a higher standard of living. Nearly EVERY single advancement

    towards morality (I.E: ceasing native genocide, freeing the slaves and women’s

    suffrage) was OPPOSED by the church and Christian organizations.

     

    Can I hire you as my PR Person on earth?

     

     

     

     

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