Sincerely sorry to hear you are experiencing tough times.. we all share that weight on occasion...be strong..keep running.. and all things pass...works for me..I started running for my life after reading the trios first posts and I haven't stopped since..I'm afraid to look back...although I know they would never catch me

you are welcome for the information.. sometimes having a goal or purpose is a healthy remedy for feeling down...contact the usatf and get on board with Team Ipod...that might bring a smile, some music and a little fun to your running...Good Luck..

And as I said twice today and it bears repeating, I was wearing my Ipod this morning when that minivan came out of his driveway. Not only did I hear him backing up but I also saw him, funny how that works. So even though I had my Ipod going, even though I was listening to one of my favorite songs, I was able to avoid what could have been a very bad situation. So for all the bad things you keep saying are happening, it only takes one incident like this to show me that I am very much well aware of what is going on around me, regardless of the Ipod.

Why would I? If people want to use music to run, more power to them. If music inspires someone to get off their duff and outside for a run, that is far more important then anything else. As for enjoyment, I ran a race last year without my MP3 player because the battery died right before the start and I didn't enjoy the race. My music motivates me, it moves me and this you might get more enjoyment is just a bunch of ****. Maybe you do and if that is what you like, I say go forth and have fun. I enjoy listening to music when I run and race, I am not about to give that up, nor am I going to try and convince someone that they shouldn't run without their music. That is a conclusion they should come to on their own.

And here I've been thinking ill of them for ducking the issue. This certainly isn't an anti-ipod stance, but the RRCA knows that while it provide some benefits to clubs, most clubs would not bother to join if the RRCA could not provide access to Insurance. Without having the insurance to offer, the RRCA is probably out of business.

The RRCA does not stage races, bless races or have any say in what races do other than whatever requirements there are in granting insurance to races.

If you think this fight will be fought over runner attendance to whatever races, you will all be wrong. Once either the USATF or RRCA gets out of the insurance business, the surviving entity on insurance will close the door on ipods so fast you won't and don't believe it. Best you learn to run without them because then the shock of losing the fight you don't think you will lose won't be so bad.

BTW, if you think the replies you guys post from the USATF and perhaps from the RRCA are what they are really thinking, you display your complete lack of understanding about human nature and how people who are temporarily cornered are not likely to be forthcoming about what their position is and where their position is likely to go. I know you get your jollies by pointing out that few are taking a firm stand, but this is certainly a PR issue and most RDs haven't had to deal with such things before. You think they will cave-in, and I agree they will "cave-in" but the cave-in will be to their larger fear which is "no insurance".

If races spurn you, you "might" not come to their race. If races spurn the insurance companies, the race WILL cease to exist, no "maybe" or "might". Human nature is human nature and all the ya da, ya da, ya da, right on, question authority stuff isn't going to be worth a hoot in the end.

If you were nicer about it and sought to help races I'd be more kindly to you, but your "screw the races" attitude will get you nothing but a shorter grace period than you night have had otherwise. Actually, I don't really know what you could do to be nicer to races than just shutting up, because the ipod thing is a distraction issue and not just a hearing issue. (I.E 1 ear bud may help the hearing, but does nothing for distraction that the music "stupor" brings) . The only "insurance" solution to ipods is their demise at races. and when it happens remember I told you so.

BTW, my posting in another thread about the impact of being a volunteer was my own interpretation of a potential liability issue that I know exists. I feel at least somewhat vindicated that such a concept has been noticed by some even more involved with things than myself.

edited to add: I suspect that for "closed" race courses ipods may be allowed for a longer time than on non-closed courses. However, human nature will rule and some RDs will "stretch" their interpretation of what the definition of "closed" is so as to be able (in their mind) to allow ipods. The counter to that by the insurance companies will be to just eliminate the "closed" definition from the mix and ban the ipods regardless because they (the insurance companies) can't "trust" the RDs to strickly follow the rules.

From the December RRCA, newsletter.

iPod oblivion' is a modern condition in which the use of headphones induces a zombie-like state in the wearer. It's fueling the statistics for injuries, causing several major cities to enact fines and court appearances for pedestrians and bicyclists who navigate streets while absorbed in their own heedless iWorld. The USATF recently tightened the rules to prohibit digital music players and cell phones in sanctioned events. Public safety isn't the only issue: headphones could be interpreted as a means of getting assistance, which is against the rules.

Race directors are under considerable pressure by insurance carriers to be proactive in preventing accidents and lawsuits. Imagine yourself a volunteer, making futile efforts to direct a runner out of harms way only to become a witness to an accident that will trap you into lengthy, time-consuming litigation and expense.

Limit your headphone use to off road running, and take precaution during thunderstorms. While electronic devices do not attract lightening, flashovers occur when lightening strikes a nearby object. The charge will cause a wishbone burn along the wires and rupture the eardrums. If you cannot find shelter, remove your devices and crouch down with your feet close together until the storm passes.

<<<<<<< Imagine that! Mr. Finke is just looking for a middle ground.. .................... Middle ground appears to be a concept comopletely foreign to Mean and Meaner. Thank goodness, Mr. Finke doesn't share their narrow minded and mean spirited attitudes.

Middle ground is a concept that plays well when neither party has the gonads to face the issue headon. Do you honestly believe that anyone, in a high profile organization, is going to say anything other than that at this time. The USATF certainly does not welcome the IPODs, and until they are ready to work on next year's policy they can only and should only give you the line of BS that you are eating up like it is ice cream. To not understand that is naivete in the extreme, but then you ipoders seem to wallow in naivete when it comes to the deep understanding the issues involved.

<<<< Maybe what we need to be doing is sending emails to the RDs of all the races that are enforcing the ban....or at least to the RDs of races that we plan on running in. Just a thought.

You should do both, and you should make sure you tell them why in your best naive form. With your having researched the issue from the management side (I'm joking of course) you will certainly impress them with your knowledge of all the issues.

The RRCA conference is coming up in a few months. You should certainly get to all the running clubs before they send off their representatives to the conference.

Please tell anyone who will listen whatever you want. I truly want you ipoders to say as much as you can. The more noise you make the sooner this will get settled. The sooner you organize some "real" race boycotts the better. I'm not jerking you around on this, I really wish you guys would do more and make it louder.

Your attitude and threats to ignore the rules will certainly win you supporters in all corners. NOT