Marathon Trainers Thread

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spicegeek

822 posts since
Jan 14, 2007

15. Jan 29, 2008 2:24 PM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Does planning to run in 2009 count ?

.. I`m on the world longest Marathon training plan - My goal is to get to 25 - 30 mpw this year and a long run of 10 - 13 miles to be ready to train for NY on 2009

CarboDiem

15 posts since
Jan 25, 2005

16. Jan 29, 2008 6:06 PM

in response to: JPGarland

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

JP,

Good question, thanks. My cross training is due to following a new training schedule called First 3+2, from Furman institute. Run three days and cross train two days, about 35 miles total. Sppeed day, Tempo day, long run day. I read about it in Runner's World last year but thought it was only for triatheletes. After losing a year to an overuse injury -- stress fracture of the hip -- I bought the authors' book . The "Run Less, Go Faster" subtitle appealed to me. The author said older runners like me (45) can benefit from substituting cross training for easy days. Cross training workouts like spin or swim build your cardio conditioning without subjecting you to the pounding of say, Pfitz 55 MPW. I ran about 20 marathons the old way, with lots of miles. I loved getting up and banging out 13 or so before work, but do not want to see any more doctors in professional setting. Wanted to try something new. A year off for recovery makes you cautious. The website is http://www.furman.edu/first/fmtp.htm

JPGarland

777 posts since
Dec 7, 2007

17. Jan 29, 2008 6:41 PM

in response to: CarboDiem

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

CD,

You've done many more marathons than I (2) have, so I defer to you. I also think that the more marathons one does young the more problem arise with aging. I'm not a big fan of cross-training because of the specific nature of our sport. I understand it from an injury-prevention standpoint, but I don't know what benefit I'd get from, say, spinning for an hour. My cardio is in pretty good shape.

I've had my share of injuries, but am now on a 2 year relatively clean stretch, with only a few days off for minor injuries. I try to stop before they become major. After my latest long injury, I made some slight changes in my stride with a PT, and that seems to have done the trick.

I'm 51 and try to run 6 days a week, largely training via Daniels. I find I recover pretty easily. I'm now to some extent building a base for NY on November 2, 2008, and am up to about 48 a week. My longest run for the spring will be 2 hours, probably once a month, and I did one a couple of week-ends ago, for 17+ miles. When I ran NY 2006, my mileage was not as high as I wanted it to be, so I want to hit the summer with a solid base that will allow me to get consistently to 70.

Jim Sullivan032

516 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

18. Jan 30, 2008 8:43 AM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

OK, let's throw some numbers around. (I'm an economist, so I'm good at making up numbers.)

Last night turned out to be a 15-miler at, believe it or not, a 6:59 pace. Interestingly, most seasons where I'm training for a marathon or HM, my fastest workout in the 14-18 mile range will be at a pace just under 7:00. It seems that the goal is to see how long I can maintain the pace, rather than seeing what the pace will be for a specific distance.

The next step was to look at the last 5 seasons where I ran either distance, and convert my HM times to marathon projections. Next, I used a pace calculator to convert my best workouts to paces for the same distance as last night. Then, I figured out the marathon to workout ratios for each pair.

It turned out that there was some pretty strong consistency, varying from a best of 1.0045 in Fall '06 to a high of 1.0259 in Spring '03. So, right now I'm going to set a range of 3:01:27 to 3:07:54 as the target. If we just want one point instead of a range, we can split it and go for 3:04:40.

This, of course, is all subject to revision when more data becaomes available. You know, like actual races and stuff.

Ewart_Harris

332 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

19. Jan 30, 2008 8:45 AM

in response to: spicegeek

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Hi Spicegeek

The focus of the thread is for folks running this spring to share with each other and keep motivated. However we have such a short list that I guess we should not be refusing anyone. So come on in and join us. Post your projected goal time, if you have one now (feel free to change it later) and let us see how your weekly training is going.

Sorry to here about your past bout with injuries. I guess this explains your approach. With so much marathon experience, I can easily guess that you are a lover of the sport of running. I can understand that you would be cautious in wanting to avoid parting with your lover. I am 42 and there is nothing I would love more than to be able to continue running beyond the age of 70 consequently I have been very careful in trying to pay attention to my body to avoid injuries.

I am not sure if you have ever heard of the Canadian Ed Whitlock. This is a man who runs marathon in under 3:00hrs in his seventies. At age 75 he ran a 3:08. He lives close to my town and I am proud to say that I have ran in at least one marathon with him. (I am sure he did better than I did at the last Scotia Waterfront Marathon) He is a hero to me. Here are a few links to articles on Ed. This is

http://www.theharrier.com/marcbloomrunning/worldclassrunners/whitlock.php

http://completerunning.com/archives/2006/09/24/75-year-old-ed-whitlock-runs-marathon-in-an-amazing-3-hours-8-minutes/

It will be interesting to see what results your actual life experience with this method will bring. This will certainly add a lot of excitement to this thread, as we will follow your progress to your goal.

Ewart_Harris

332 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

20. Jan 30, 2008 8:59 AM

in response to: Jim Sullivan032

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

OK Jim

Now we have it all together. Jim that was an awesome run*!!* I think if you can do that well this early out you should be able to break 3:00hrs I am surprised that you are setting such a low bar. If the weather conditions hold up in Boston despite the course I think you should be able to break 3hrs.

Cool Runner RACE Goal Time

CarboDiem Boston April/08 3:30:00

Jim Sullivan Boston April/08 3:04:40

Beatfreq Boston April/08 2:59:59

Ewart Harris Ottawa May/08 3:15:00

CarboDiem

15 posts since
Jan 25, 2005

21. Jan 31, 2008 4:38 AM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Ewart,

I ran Toronto Scotiabank marathon with Ed Whitlock in Sept 2005, he is awesome. Ed is pictured lining up at the track at a masters running championship, for the 10K I think, in the latest (Feb/Mar?) issue of Runner magazine. He is amazing. I think he probably beat me but am not sure. I think I ran about 3:20. He is only 30 years or so older than me so he should have given me a head start. Anyway, Ed is my idol for 70 plus masters runners.

There was another unusal runner at that race, Michael Cabral, the joggler, who juggles while running. He may have pushed his child in a baby jogger that race, not sure which Guiness world record he was going for. Good luck in Ottawa, I looked at that race but could not figure out how to justify traveling there on business.

Jim,

How often do you do a fast 15 miler like that? Is it always the same course, and it it flat and fast? How close to your goal race do you do it? My last ten long runs before Boston are within 30 seconds of race pace. I like the idea of training that closely mimics the race, but burned myself out one year doing it for 20 miles a few weeks before the race.

JP:

Was NY 2006 a hot weather day? A woman I run with ran NY one year and said it was painfully hot. How did you get a number, take your chances in the lottery or did you get an automatic number by running a certain qualifying time?

I like the spinning because my cardio conditioning dropped off a lot during 8 months or so of recovery. I used to do up to 60 MPW but I got little injuries (sore knee, hamstring, etc.) I think it may help increase the number of steps I take each minute running. Also I like to ride my bicycle to work in the summer so it gets me in good shape for that. It is 18 miles each way so I only do it twice a week. The snow was nice for skiing with the kids yesterday but it is no good for bicycling.

JPGarland

777 posts since
Dec 7, 2007

22. Jan 31, 2008 7:30 AM

in response to: CarboDiem

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

NY 2006 was perfect weather. I got in through a Clubmate. I had a qualifying time, but hadn't even thought about running a marathon until I was training for Reach-the-Beach, in which I was getting into semi-marathon shape. So I decided on a fall marathon, and my Clubmate out of the blue asked me if I wanted into NY (she works for a sponsor).

I entered, but didn't run, NY 2007 (chose RTB instead) and will enter NY 2008 via a qualifying time. (2008 Qualifying Times.)

As to spinning, if it helps on the injury front, go for it.

Ewart_Harris

332 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

23. Feb 4, 2008 11:36 AM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Time for everyone to report in:

Cool Runner RACE Goal Time

CarboDiem Boston April/08 3:30:00

Jim Sullivan Boston April/08 3:04:40

Beatfreq Boston April/08 2:59:59

Ewart Harris Ottawa May/08 3:15:00

Ewart_Harris

332 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

24. Feb 4, 2008 11:46 AM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

My week was as follows;

Mon 9miles in 1:14 (including 10*100 strides)
Tue 7.2 miles in 1:12
Wed off due to bad weather
Thur 13.2miles in 2:00
Fri 11.00miles in 1:44
Sat 8:00miles in 1:11 (in doors on thread mill)
Sun 17.80 miles in 2:46

Total miles for the week 66.2

This was a tough week with a snow storm on Friday. I had to run in a strong head wind with blowing snow to get home. Saturday I had to go inside and Sunday was a fight with Ice, Snow and Slush. All my runs were AM starting at 4 or 5. Little disapointed that I am not up to seventy miles yet but I am still proud considering the weather.

CarboDiem

15 posts since
Jan 25, 2005

25. Feb 4, 2008 5:56 PM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Hi All,

I did two runs and two spin classes:

Monday--Rest day sore from 20 miler

Tuesday--Spin class 45 min

Wed--Speed, 3 x 1 mile w/1 min rest, 6:25, 6:12, 6:10

Thurs-Spin

Fri--Rest, sick, head cold. Skipped tempo run.

Sat--Long run, 17 at 9:15, ice storm and hills dragged me down a bit.

Sun-Rest

Hope you are all staying motivated and healthy. I am good with motivation but feeling a little draggy.

beatfreq

155 posts since
Jun 26, 2005

26. Feb 4, 2008 7:33 PM

in response to: CarboDiem

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Hello all,

I was sick for much of the week, too. I skipped or shortened a few runs, most runs were slow, and my mileage for the week was lower than planned, but I managed to run at least some each day. This week feels like it might be back to normal. Here's the week:

Mo - 6.2mi @ 9:15
Tu - 10.8mi @ 8:13
We - 12.4mi @ 8:18
Thu - 6mi @ 8:10
Fri - 8mi @ 8:35 on treadmill
Sa - 10.79mi @ 7:58
Su - 19.65mi @ 8:10

weekly mileage: 73.84
avg. weight: 189 lbs - down 1 pound

Good Running, everyone!

Rotherhithe Runner

28 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

27. Feb 5, 2008 5:57 AM

in response to: beatfreq

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Hi there,

I'd really like to throw my hat in the ring if that's OK. I'm running my first Marathon at the London in April. I've done a 1/2m every spring for the last few years, but the last year is the first year I've really started to train consistently (20mi a week Jan-Sep, 30mi Sep-Dec, 35-40mi the last 5 weeks).

I'm a bit cautious to throw in an exact target time until I do my prep half in 4 weeks, and due to some problems with ITBS (My long run knocks me out of action for a day), but I'll probably be aiming for sub 3:15

I realise my mileage is a bit under-cooked but I think I'm going to struggle to get beyound 45-50mi with my ITBS issues.

Here's my last week:

Tues: 5.25mi @ 7:40
Wed: 4mi @ 7:29
Thurs: 6.95mi inl: 4 x 1.18mi loops @ average 6:21
Fri: 4mi @ 7:36
Sun: 18.05mi @ 7:40

Total: 38.25mi

Good luck to all!

Ewart_Harris

332 posts since
Dec 14, 2007

28. Feb 5, 2008 8:15 AM

in response to: Rotherhithe Runner

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 01/27

Welcome Rrunner

Great to have you on board, I am not sure if you are aware but this was once a very lively message board with lots of talented and knowledgeable coaches, runners, exercise physiologist, etc. However, lots of them are gone now hopefully some will return (Long store around that but I guess you will pick that up along the way). I think if we all as runners stick together and share ideas we will survive. Please make ever effort to share with us when you can any running knowledge, ideas thoughts or what your experience is like.
By the way your mileage seem low to many CR folks but it is not unusual. There was a poster Runershigh who use to do around 40 miles a week and his marathon times hovered around 3:00hrs.

Beatfreq
Great week! And good luck with keeping the weight down. I am afraid to weigh myself. I think I will start to record it. I guess it will motivate me to keep the weight down.

CarboDiem
Hope you are feeling better. Do you live in or near to Toronto? I live in Ajax, which is East of Toronto. The reason I asked is that on Wednesday we had 90 mile an hour winds. I did not even bother to run. On Friday, there was a Snowstorm. I got up early to run at 5AM (normal for me anyway) but the storm came earlier than I expected so I was caught in the beginning of it. Just getting out to run was an accomplishment. I had to start running at 4:00AM on Sunday and many of the sidewalks were not properly cleared so I was running in the street sometimes. However the temp have gotten mild for January so I still have a lot to be happy for.
I saw where you ran Scotia waterfront with Ed Whitlock so I wondered if you were from around these parts.

CarboDiem

15 posts since
Jan 25, 2005

29. Feb 5, 2008 9:33 AM

in response to: Ewart_Harris

Re: Marathon Trainers Thread - Week of 02/03

Ewart,

No I live in central Massachusetts. I was in Toronto for work and stayed an extra day to run the race. The Rolling Stones were in town but I did not find out in time to buy tickets. I enjoyed the Scotiabank Waterfront marathon, seeing the Toronto skyline and the nice lake views. I started to bonk on the back portion of the Leslie Spit. Kilometer 40 is a bad time to discover that there are 42 K in a marathon. I missed requalifying for Boston by about 20 second (1:21), but requalified the following April. I stayed in the same hotel as the Kenyans, Four Points Sheraton at the halfway mark. It was cool seeing them all hanging out in the lobby on race day morning.

Beatfreq:

I am jealous of your 18 miler at low 8 minute pace. You had an awesome week, great job!

Rotherhithe Runner:

You also had a great week, especially with ITBS. Have you tried icing it? I put a plastic ice pack in my pant leg at work when I had IT problems. Ice and ibuprophen worked very well. Good luck recovering.

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